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Post by mountguitars on Sept 11, 2006 11:31:09 GMT 8
since i have a lot of time in my hands i might as well put it to good use. dunno where to put this thread so i put it here instead. i just wanted to share things i did that made me a better XC biker. these tips can range from the downright simple ideas to the complex and highly technical and straineous ones but in any case, if somebody has an idea regarding what made them good XC riders, please do post here as well. this thread is for sharing peeps.  to start off, the best upgrade you can do for your bike (and yourself) is: get clipless pedals. if you already have clipless pedals then good for you. for those who doesn't, better get one. using clipless pedals will add refinement to your pedal strokes for better efficiency and consistency all the time you use your bike. once, somebody posted on a different thread that they should start using clipless pedals from the start. i would second that suggestion. at first i found it harsh. i thought that someone should try platforms first so he can master some of the handling skills before even considering better pedal strokes coz its not easy to use a bike with clipless pedals and it might lead to crashes that might make the newbie biker quit riding MTB but then again, most folks at this age would already have basic handling skills becoz i believe most of us started pedalling when we were young. we knew how to steer and keep our balance. the only thing we haven't learned so far is proper shifting and pedalling. so i guess give it a month on platform and if you're comfortable with the bike, move yourself out of the comfort zone and use clipless pedals. in the end, if you want to be a better XC biker, clipless is the way to go. a popular myth about using clipless pedals is this: - if i crash, will my feet get stuck on the pedals? (and thus i crash with the bike as well?). answer: yes and no. yes if you crash at low speed there wouldn't be enough force to knock your feet out of the pedals. so how low is slow? less than 5 kph i guess or even at a standstill 0 kph so this would be harmless but if you crashed at high speeds then the crash will have enough force to uncleat you from the pedals without you even uncleating. so in short, using clipless pedals is perfectly safe. also, dont give lame excuses like: what if i want to buy pandesal or to the sarisari store to buy suka? then i have to wear bike shoes just to buy suka. that's too much hassle. i'd rather use platform pedals then. read the title of the thread, buddy. i guess there's another thread here that says: how to master the art of buying suka and pandesal using your XC bike in the most efficient way. wake up buddy. you bought an XC rig for offroad skirmishes right? if not then case closed. by the way, lots of folks here who have potential to be a good XC biker but still using platform pedals . you know who you are. unleash your potential and use clipless pedals. |
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Post by mountguitars on Sept 11, 2006 11:36:15 GMT 8
braking. a lot of folks prefer applying brakes at the rear. that's a big no-no. i dont need to emphasize on this one, just do it. apply brakes at the front and modulate using the rear. also, don't apply brakes on a turn. apply brakes before making the turn and once you achieve the desired speed, go ahead and make the turn.
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Post by Freeman on Sept 11, 2006 11:48:33 GMT 8
Just to add: In crossing muddy sections.., and you dont want your shiny clipless shoes to be muddy ;D, try spinning continously with some load on your strokes.., don't be afraid you'll fall because the tires will work for you, just keep spinning till you'ved crossed the obstacle... Same goes for rocky single tracks.., the more power you apply with some handling skills.. the faster you'll overcome obstacles  On long single track descent..., try to stay focus on the trail and not what is on the sides, this way you'll be concentrated on what will come ahead of you, and always look 5-10m ahead. Conquering uphills.., there are two types of techniques XC bikers use in terms of pedalling, first are the pedal mashers (using brute strenght) and there's the spinners.. In my case, I utilize both techniques, when I'ved been to the route and knows the length of the climb, I mash and stand to conquer the climb faster... but use spinning when I think I need to conserve the energy because of unfamiliar routes and climbs... |
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Post by mountguitars on Sept 11, 2006 11:59:50 GMT 8
everything being equal, one thing that sets a good biker appart from every one else is the bike he uses. lets talk about upgrades. anybody can upgrade a part of their bike but what part will be a performance enhancer? lighter moving parts can spell the difference and such upgrade can be felt immediately. start from the the moving parts like wheelset, cranks, pedals, tires, tubes. last thing you'd like to upgrade would be the dead weight parts like the cockpit (frame, saddle, seatpost, handle bar, grips, stem), fork, RD, FD, brake levers and shifters, etc.
here's a good example of parts you can lighten up to improve performance:
tubes
tires
spokes
rims
pedals
crank
cogset
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Post by arcireyes on Sept 11, 2006 12:33:55 GMT 8
jon,
brad., you strengthen my desire to go clipless ah. anyways, the bike i bought from allan have clipless pedals na eh, ang problem na lang is shoes. i understand that an entry level shoes with cleats is around about P1,300.00 yata. gotta save on that one and see if going clipless can improve my ride. siguro the cleats will improve me 10% but practice on endurance and stamina will still be 90%. pwede na rin!
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Post by mountguitars on Sept 11, 2006 12:38:14 GMT 8
pointers for shifting. problem arises with shifting when the gears dont engage outright and you get to hear the chain rub on the FD, if you're shifting the FD, and vice versa for the RD. its either the FD and RD aren't tuned properly or you're not shifting properly. if everything's tuned properly and you still get problems with shifting, here's what you can do.
as freeman said, there's 2 kinds of pedallers: mashers and spinners. mashers require brute strength thus achieving low rpm/cadence on the cranks at a heavy/high gear while the spinners are totally the opposite, high cadence/rpm on the cranks at a light/low gear.
the best shifter of the 2 pedallers mentioned would be a spinner. so what's the rationale? if you're moving the cranks at a light gear that would simply mean one thing: LIGHT. when i say light, the contact of the chains to the cranks and cogset are light enough so that the FD and RD can easily push or move or derail the chain to the desired gear.
shifting while mashing on the other hand would result to derailment of the chain on either of the 3 rings if you're shifting the FD especially if you want to switch to the granny. also, there'd be chain rubbing on the FD and RD and it'll decrease the life of your cranks, chain and cogset. so its better to be spinner than a masher. points on these on the next tip.
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Post by mountguitars on Sept 11, 2006 12:44:19 GMT 8
jon, brad., you strengthen my desire to go clipless ah. anyways, the bike i bought from allan have clipless pedals na eh, ang problem na lang is shoes. i understand that an entry level shoes with cleats is around about P1,300.00 yata. gotta save on that one and see if going clipless can improve my ride. siguro the cleats will improve me 10% but practice on endurance and stamina will still be 90%. pwede na rin! arci, you're lucky somebody told you this. when i first started out i mtbiking, was with newbies who didn't know much about bikes as well. i actually bought biking shoes but didn't have clipless pedals, hehehe. ;D so in short nauna yung shoes and then the pedals after. another thing to point out though with biking shoes......... the soles of biking shoes are stiff. what does that mean? absolute transfer of power. with rubbershoes, there's transfer of power alright but not as efficient as bike shoes. i bet everything will improve by at least 20% if you switch to clipless. |
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Post by janix on Sept 11, 2006 12:47:28 GMT 8
hmmm... this is a good thread. here's mine.
Don't push it!
If you're really feel tired but still has a long way to go, it's not a shame to rest. Don't push yourself into doing something that would cause you great harm. But don't get used to pushing your bike.
hmmm... that's all in my head right now.
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Post by mountguitars on Sept 11, 2006 12:52:10 GMT 8
nice tip janix.
talking about pushing, there's nothing wrong with pushing your bike. even on world cup races, some of the best push or carry their bikes. sometimes i think the only reason we have to make our rigs light so we can easily push/carry our bikes, hehehe.
if you've watched off road to athens you'll see that some do this and those are world cup races where best of the best collide.
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Post by Superbad on Sept 11, 2006 13:01:41 GMT 8
mountguitars is right...best and cheap upgrade is to get lightweight tires and tubes. it will set you back by about 1.5k or less.
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Post by kulot_salot on Sept 11, 2006 13:44:54 GMT 8
nice tip janix. talking about pushing, there's nothing wrong with pushing your bike. even on world cup races, some of the best push or carry their bikes. sometimes i think the only reason we have to make our rigs light so we can easily push/carry our bikes, hehehe. if you've watched off road to athens you'll see that some do this and those are world cup races where best of the best collide. even ned overend also push his bike... ;D |
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Post by kulot_salot on Sept 11, 2006 13:50:11 GMT 8
hehehe... this one is a joke in our ride (maarat-wawa): "vans don't grip well like my mtb-cycling shoes...."
was that freeman who said that? hehehe....
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Post by Julio on Sept 11, 2006 14:11:19 GMT 8
So Jon, Sicnce your on the topic of giving advice... Could you assemble a hypothetical XC-oriented rig with a budget of 30k? What would the frame, components, and other parts be? Possible ba ang 30k with all the "lighter" moving parts? Just want to imagine what you'll put together with a sorta limited budget No 2nd hand parts pala  |
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Post by mountguitars on Sept 11, 2006 14:11:58 GMT 8
get a cyclo computer and a heart rate monitor. you can never go wrong with these, specially for the heart rate monitor. make it a standard on your rig and you'll be flying in a short period of time. of course you'd need to understand the mechanics of a HRM. that's in another thread though. besides, investing in a Heart rate monitor is investing this time on the rider, not the bike.
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Post by kulot_salot on Sept 11, 2006 14:50:11 GMT 8
@ idol, if jon would be giving a hypothetical xc rig, that would be revealing his secret xc-race weapon.... hehehe...
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Post by Ben Dover on Sept 11, 2006 14:54:27 GMT 8
tips eh?...hmm...ride with jon...talk bikes with jon. |
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Arman
Free Rider
rides..rides...rides!!!
Posts: 212
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Post by Arman on Sept 11, 2006 14:55:41 GMT 8
jon, brad., you strengthen my desire to go clipless ah. anyways, the bike i bought from allan have clipless pedals na eh, ang problem na lang is shoes. i understand that an entry level shoes with cleats is around about P1,300.00 yata. gotta save on that one and see if going clipless can improve my ride. siguro the cleats will improve me 10% but practice on endurance and stamina will still be 90%. pwede na rin! Yes it will improve, coz a pull will be added, so you will have a push and a pull pedalling. But it depends on the rider if he/ she will use this push and pull. Me, i just push and pull the bike if i cannot peda. ;Dl arci, you're lucky somebody told you this. when i first started out i mtbiking, was with newbies who didn't know much about bikes as well. i actually bought biking shoes but didn't have clipless pedals, hehehe. ;D so in short nauna yung shoes and then the pedals after. another thing to point out though with biking shoes......... the soles of biking shoes are stiff. what does that mean? absolute transfer of power. with rubbershoes, there's transfer of power alright but not as efficient as bike shoes. i bet everything will improve by at least 20% if you switch to clipless. ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by kulot_salot on Sept 11, 2006 15:16:04 GMT 8
it's true!
going clipless & using mtb-specific cycling shoes makes more efficient power transfer to the drivetrain.
no mushing or compression of the rubber soles of sneakers or trainers!
i know because i have tried it na! hehehe.... thanks jon for the PM advises!
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Post by mountguitars on Sept 11, 2006 15:21:20 GMT 8
So Jon, Sicnce your on the topic of giving advice... Could you assemble a hypothetical XC-oriented rig with a budget of 30k? What would the frame, components, and other parts be? Possible ba ang 30k with all the "lighter" moving parts? Just want to imagine what you'll put together with a sorta limited budget No 2nd hand parts pala nice one julio. let me see what i can come up with......... -frame: bianchi. the one that paul and owen uses. weighs in at approximately 2kgs for a small sized frame. add a 150-200 grams for bigger sizes. cost P3k including headset and seat collar. why this frame? good cable routing, top and bottom tube is ovalized, s-shaped stays, small headtube for a low profile rig makes this a good buy. only thing i didn't like is the top tube angle, that's why i love KHS frames. -deore '06 DCL. P2,350, deore '06 FD P850, deore '06 RD (rapid rise) at P1.3k. total cost of P4,500. this drive train setup is better than the XTR '03, XT '04, LX '05. reason: shimano not only trickles the technology to its lower models, it also refines it further, with some diregard to weight that is. it maybe better but it could be heavier. that's when the higher models come in. its a cycle. - outboard bearing crank: either a truvativ firex or deore LX at P4.5K. it could be cheaper though. haven't been updated with these parts. why go for outboard bearing cranks? stiff, light weight and reduced moving parts make outboard bearing based cranks a good buy. though an LX '03 crank would equally weigh the same, octalink BB's are no match to an outboard bearing's efficiency. 930 grams - pedals: shimano M540 @ P1,800. only 4 grams heavier than the M959, shimano's top of the line pedal which cost almots P5k, you can never go wrong with M540's that almost looks the same as a 959. why go for shimano pedals? durability, consistency and easy of use make shimano pedals unbeatable. weight though would be different story and even shedding mud. around 350 grams. - wheelset: shimano LX centerlock hubs, UFO rims, dt swiss revos equals 1.750 kgs at P9.5K - tires: maxxis flyweights. 1.95, 330 grams/ea at P500/ea. but if you find this tire a bit knobless and need more volume, go for karmas at 480 grams/ea for a 2.0 tires (the lightest 2.0 i've seen) at P400 each. karmas are race proven tires. but if you find 480 grams heavy but still need a bit bigger knobs than the flyweights from offer, you can go for kenda klimax at 345 grams @ P1,250 ea. - tubes: go for MOB or cheng shen at 140grams each at P100/ea - cheapest shimano 9 speed chain. P550. differences in weight with dura ace and XTR are minute when you compare it with the cheapest shimano chain. what sets it appart is the anti rust properties of the chain but if you clean and lube your chain regularly, this cheap P550 chain is your best bet. - saddle: felt by peter. P600 for 245 grams. not the lightest but the cheapest at its class. carbon and chromoly rails. - amoeba hussar seatpost. 250 at P650. cut it further and you can lose around 20 grams per inch. - handle bar: spiros by peter. 140 grams. P300 - grips: GT generic grips. 99 grams @ P60. non-lock on, you need zip ties on both ends or if you have bar ends, that's good enough. not the lightest but definitely bang for your buck. - stem: turbolite. 100mm, 5 degree, 140 grams @ P800 - brake cables and housings: shimano M system. P100 - stainless shifter cables: P100 each - cogset: shimano XT. forgot weight but its the best bang for your buck. P2.4K - brakes: tektro IO. at 770 grams for the calipers, rotors, adapters and bolts, its definitely a de-light at P2,000. trade the rotors to centerlocks by the way. - fork: 80mm skareb comp 1.5 kgs at P5.5K. unfortunately out of supply, your next best bet would be an R7 comp at 100mm for P9.5K. though a SID would be dandy, the additional P5.5K doesn't sound appealing specially if you know that a SID will flex occassionally but its does save you around 300 grams against an R7. whole rig will cost you P44,660 (excluding assembly fee) using maxxis flyweight tires. whole bike would weigh in at approximately 22lbs. if you want to reach the 21 lb mark, you'll have to upgrade the frame to an alite 4000 which costs P13,000. alite 4000 weighs in at 1.55kgs. these are just estimates and approximations. the weight might be higher or lower. i only use an analog scale, a far cry from the digital version. no approved therapeutic claims, hehe. |
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Post by bongjumper on Sept 11, 2006 15:53:27 GMT 8
Just curious about the Bianchi Frame - is this real one or just the generic frame  |
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Post by mountguitars on Sept 11, 2006 17:35:18 GMT 8
Just curious about the Bianchi Frame - is this real one or just the generic frame it could be a third shift (puslit) i mean for the price of 3K, that seems cheap, right? but the tubings and welds are seamless. i wouldn't mistake it for a generic frame. i guess this is our edge over the other countries. |
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Post by Superbad on Sept 11, 2006 17:41:14 GMT 8
whole rig will cost you P44,660?
ouch. you could get an anthem 3 for that amount!
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Post by Julio on Sept 11, 2006 20:32:33 GMT 8
medyo mahal nga... if it was less than 30k, i'd be really tempted to follow whatever advice you wrote down and assemble a rig worthy to be called a "weight-weenier" ;D
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Post by mountguitars on Sept 11, 2006 22:21:04 GMT 8
medyo mahal nga... if it was less than 30k, i'd be really tempted to follow whatever advice you wrote down and assemble a rig worthy to be called a "weight-weenier" ;D pricey indeed but at that specs, its the cheapest and lightest rig at that price. race ready and good enough for everyday use, functional and lightweight. it'll actually be my project in the future (around 5 years from now, hehehe). ;D |
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Post by kulot_salot on Sept 12, 2006 8:59:46 GMT 8
well, less weight does not really equate to less money... seems to me that it's reasonable...
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Post by janix on Sept 12, 2006 9:08:55 GMT 8
braking. a lot of folks prefer applying brakes at the rear. that's a big no-no. i dont need to emphasize on this one, just do it. apply brakes at the front and modulate using the rear. also, don't apply brakes on a turn. apply brakes before making the turn and once you achieve the desired speed, go ahead and make the turn. does this apply to switchbacks? i did it kanina, but i'm having a hard time doing it. switchback, downhill. |
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Post by mountguitars on Sept 12, 2006 10:41:49 GMT 8
braking. a lot of folks prefer applying brakes at the rear. that's a big no-no. i dont need to emphasize on this one, just do it. apply brakes at the front and modulate using the rear. also, don't apply brakes on a turn. apply brakes before making the turn and once you achieve the desired speed, go ahead and make the turn. does this apply to switchbacks? i did it kanina, but i'm having a hard time doing it. switchback, downhill. i guess it depends on how tight and steep the switch back is. if its too technical, you might even go a bit slower and brake on the switchback itself. but just in case you need to brake, as always, use front brakes and modulate with the rear. also, some switchbacks require some weight shifting and even pulling on the handlebars to move the bike into direction you want after just making a quarter of a turn. |
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Post by bongjumper on Sept 12, 2006 12:01:56 GMT 8
it could be a third shift (puslit) i mean for the price of 3K, that seems cheap, right? but the tubings and welds are seamless. i wouldn't mistake it for a generic frame. i guess this is our edge over the other countries. For that price of Bianchi frame, it's really cheap. I want to buy one for my brother... |
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Post by Ben Dover on Sept 12, 2006 12:34:05 GMT 8
For that price of Bianchi frame, it's really cheap. I want to buy one for my brother... how thoughtful a brother you are sir. ;D |
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Post by Freeman on Sept 12, 2006 14:03:57 GMT 8
braking. a lot of folks prefer applying brakes at the rear. that's a big no-no. i dont need to emphasize on this one, just do it. apply brakes at the front and modulate using the rear. also, don't apply brakes on a turn. apply brakes before making the turn and once you achieve the desired speed, go ahead and make the turn. does this apply to switchbacks? i did it kanina, but i'm having a hard time doing it. switchback, downhill. On switchbacks, I use hard rear braking as i approach the elbow, locking the brakes making a fishtale and aiming the whole bike at the end of the turn, then release brakes.., or sometimes I just lift my rear to allign the bike with the exit of the switchback.  |
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