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Post by shuzzs on Dec 3, 2005 18:19:08 GMT 8
Guys!
Which do you think is better... the Dual Control lever or the Rapid-fire shifters?
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Post by Superbad on Dec 3, 2005 19:23:42 GMT 8
ano binabalak mo? ot: akyat tayo tagaytay next week, sama cousin ko and his gf. tell gronnz!
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Post by Patrick on Dec 3, 2005 20:15:11 GMT 8
for what type of riding?
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Post by rickym on Dec 3, 2005 22:19:51 GMT 8
shimano DUAL CONTROL LEVER (lx, xt and xtr groupset) is also RAPID FIRE SHIFTER ......
my understanding on "dual control lever" function
1. it was called "dual control" means u can adjust shifting thru a. thru brake lever only....... the lever function as shifter and brake lever as the same time b. thru shifter pod....(just like the other old model shimano)
this "dual control lever" (lx xt and xtr now deore 06 model groupset) originally built with shifter trigger pod when u buy it...but some riders remove this shifter trigger pod leaving the brake lever only...in this scenario the the brake lever only serve as the shifter lever and brake lever at the same time........so called "dual control" coz the lever control the shifter and brake function...
2."RAPID FIRE" - "SHIFTING TO THE BIGGEST COG RAPIDLY" means CONTINUES releasing on the shifter lever on which the reaction on the rd is to CONTINUES shifting from small to biggest ring on cogset RAPIDLY.....
but.....this is dependent on RD you will install.....
if we will use/install the same rd within the groupset this set up is at "rapid fire set up"....
MAKE ATTENTION ON THE RD!!!
you will notice that the rd was already sprung out (naka 45degree open na sya) it means that the reaction of the rd when you release the shifter pod was ALWAYS to shift on the biggest ring....
therefore DUAL CONTROL lever is also RAFID FIRE shifter.....on the set up using its groupset RD..
but if we use /install the the old model RD (even the old mega 9) the rd was originally at zero degree compression ... meaning the reaction of the rd when you release the shifter pod was ALWAYS to shift on the smallest ring....the reaction of the rd was always to compress in (shifting to smallest cog)..this set up is not rapid fire i think......COZ THE COG NOT SHIFT RAPIDLY TO THE BIGGEST COG on continues releasing of shifter/lever.
in this scenario even we use the dual control lever it will not function as rapid fire shifter.... CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG....
just my OWN opinion and observation.....
by the way im using dual control xtr on my xc bike set up.....
RIDE SAFE AMIGOS!
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Post by shuzzs on Dec 3, 2005 22:37:01 GMT 8
Dirk... just checking on what parts I'm going to buy for my HT project. Sure... may VISA na ako for next week. Nagbadminton kami kanina eh. Tomorrow... I'll just practice my climbing going up to westgrove.
St. Patrick... I'm going to use it for XC.
Ricky... thanks for your feedback. Based from your explanation, the only difference of the Dual-Control lever over the rapid-fire is that shifter is incorporated with the brake lever. I guess this is true... I have already seen one. I think some call the Dual-control levers as paddle type levers (is this correct?)... you shift by pressing the brake-lever down and pressing up a shifter at the bottom part. Is this type of a mechanism better that the ol' and proven rapid-fire trigger shifters... or does it boil down to preference.
From my point of view, we may mis-shift if we use it in XC since most bikers hold the brake levers during descents.
Many thanks...
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Post by rickym on Dec 3, 2005 23:10:34 GMT 8
sir in my experience the dual control lever is the best in shimano....DUAL CONTROL LEVER IS TWO FINGER LEVER......y? coz U can shift up and down using just two finger.....(the middle and the hintuturo).....NOT USING THE THUMB as we usually do on old model shimano shifter
now about the mis shift during braking..FOR ME IT'S NOT ...BUT STILL ITS ON THE RIDER, ITS HOW U PRESS THE LEVER,its depends on how you familiar with this dual control.....when im descending i normally don't press my brake HARD for long time..gradual lang press ko..."pa pisil pisil" lang to avoid fish tail....and to avoid overheating the rotor and fast fading of my brake pad.....
FOR ME NASA RIDER PA RIN YAN.....THE COMPONENTS ONLY HELPS THE RIDERS TO BECOME GOOD IN MOUNTAIN BIKING AS EASY AS EATING PEANUTS.....
IF U ARE GREAT RIDER RIDING IN OLDSKUL BIKE WITH OLD MODEL COMPONENTS, olats MO PA RIN ANG NOT GOOD RIDER LIKE ME EVEN IM USING GOOD BIKE WITH GOOD COMPONENT LIKE THIS....
ITS ON THE RIDER brad...COMPONENT HELPS ONLY TO BECOME A GOOD RIDER....
but syempre good looking components adds pogi on our bikes and the rider also.....and im one on those who are envy when seeing good bikes with good components......(TULO LAWAY KO!!!!) hehehehe....
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Post by Superbad on Dec 3, 2005 23:52:48 GMT 8
go SRAM! wag na shimano
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Post by joes on Dec 3, 2005 23:59:55 GMT 8
opinion lang po. overkill na DCL. kung malaki price difference mag rapid fire ka na lang. kahit anong style ng riding dehins naman ganon ka-constricting mag-rapid fire.
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Post by shuzzs on Dec 4, 2005 10:48:31 GMT 8
Hi Ricky... I guess you are right... using the components... high-end or not really depends on the rider. At least I now know that dual control levers helps a lot in shifting as compared to using rapid-fire... many thanks brad.
I guess the new 2006 Deore also has a dual-control lever...
Dirk... mahal ang SRAM eh. RD pa lang mahal na... hehe
Joes... you have a point there. the Rapid-fire has been truly tested for years now. As what ricky has explained... the dual control levers is still rapid fire... the only difference is that shift lever is incorporated with the brake lever.
One advantage that rapid-fire triggers (trigger only) has over the dual control is that you can retain the same shifters if you will change your brakes from Mechs/Vs to Hydros...
Many thanks... well... so far mas lamang ang dual control over rapid-fire... mga 60-40 pa lang naman... pricewise... nag tanong na ako sa quiapo... LX dual control levers (mechs) go for 3,800. so pwede na rin.
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Post by Patrick on Dec 5, 2005 0:20:23 GMT 8
kung decided ka na na sa XC go for a dual control lever, your RD must be matched for it function properly, I use an LX 2005 and i read from a review made by MBAction it shifts better then an XT which shifts better than an XTR (shifting technology-wise, syempre material wise etc baliktad ang order), I havent used XT and XTR but mine surely shifts better than any bike Ive handled.
Downside, your damned with that combination ie RD+LEVER+either mechanical/hydro. I went for the mechanical boohoo now I cant shift to hydro easily i have to change the rest as well but it is still ok because I have a good linear mech DB.
IMHO the lever shifter is cool and easy to shift, but easy to miss shift as well, though it rarely happens to me, i treat shifting as a skill also so I learned to move my fingers properly. miss shifting usually happens if you lack skills or if you panick.
Since I shifted bike use from XC to learning trials, i removed the thumb levers, now i downshift using the levers as well ok naman.
Go for the DCLs perfect for XC.
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Post by bernie on Dec 5, 2005 8:03:19 GMT 8
Maybe the poster means, STI vs. rapid fire? I have STI on my LX, it's nice if tou're used to it na, but some of us here used rapid fire for so many years so, some is not comfortable using it.
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Post by Poseur on Dec 5, 2005 8:49:31 GMT 8
is SRAM much more expensive in the phils than Shimano?
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Post by Patrick on Dec 5, 2005 9:51:14 GMT 8
yes peachy, dont know the latest specific pricing though ... anybody here knows the latest pricing for comparison? I think LBS here base SRAM prices on SRP in $ while shimano pricing are based on how they are willing to drop the price.
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Post by shuzzs on Dec 5, 2005 10:53:16 GMT 8
St. Patrick... thanks for your inputs. I think I'll go for DCLs... Yup. I'm more into XC. Bernie... made some research... yes. STI (Shimano Total Integration) are sometime called dual-control levers or brifters... Thanks for the info. Got it from this site: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STI_shifter
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Post by bernie on Dec 5, 2005 11:32:19 GMT 8
is SRAM much more expensive in the phils than Shimano? depends on the model, i think XTR still is the most expensive
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Post by spartan23 on Dec 5, 2005 11:46:24 GMT 8
is SRAM much more expensive in the phils than Shimano? depends on the model, i think XTR still is the most expensive I tested a SRAM X0 the other day (grip shift) and fell in love...I think I like it better than the XTR's but too pricey more than the XTR's...
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Post by marcs on Dec 5, 2005 12:51:11 GMT 8
If I remember right, in ALL TERRA SRAM X0 RD is around 10k, while XTR RD is about 5-6k lang
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Post by bernie on Dec 5, 2005 15:07:30 GMT 8
SRAM labor is Made in Taiwan, XTR's are Japanese (?) if SRAM is more expensive, then I'll prefer Shimano, Im an old fashioned biker, basta Japan, oki dok, nyehehheheheheheh
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tnt
Urban Assaulter
Posts: 80
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Post by tnt on Dec 6, 2005 7:26:56 GMT 8
I read from mtbr.com that the XTR might come out w/ a 10 spd cassette in 2007. If that happens, the 9sp dual control will be obsolete in a few years. It might be better to stick with rapid fire shifters as it will be less expensive to upgrade when the time comes. Also, you won't be stuck with shimano disk brakes.
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Post by Patrick on Dec 6, 2005 11:47:03 GMT 8
wow upgrade time na naman,
ako siguro i will stick with the 9 speed even when the 10 speed comes (sa midrange price), weight of my casette plus my use of 11T-21T only is enough for me to stay with 9 speed ... I might downgrade to a 105 cassette though (to save 20 grams ngek).
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Post by rickym on Dec 6, 2005 11:54:07 GMT 8
I read from mtbr.com that the XTR might come out w/ a 10 spd cassette in 2007. If that happens, the 9sp dual control will be obsolete in a few years. It might be better to stick with rapid fire shifters as it will be less expensive to upgrade when the time comes. Also, you won't be stuck with shimano disk brakes. wow 10 speed....how many teeth kaya biggest ring...maybe 36? or 38? wala ba 40 pang akyat sa the wall?.......
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Post by Patrick on Dec 6, 2005 14:43:45 GMT 8
usually the biggest ring in the cassette is the same but the the transition of the teeth are smoother.
i.e. 8speed vs 9 speed both have 11T-32T or 11T-34T
10 speed will most likely be the same, parang sa road 11T-21T, 11T-24T, 13T-27T its usually the range.
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Post by Poseur on Dec 6, 2005 15:45:14 GMT 8
10 speed so our chains will get even narrower? screw Shimano! i'm sticking w/ 9 speed. i don't even need all 9 cogs in my cassette.
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tnt
Urban Assaulter
Posts: 80
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Post by tnt on Dec 7, 2005 8:04:35 GMT 8
Ha ha...I'm still holding on to my 8 speed drivetrain.
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Post by bernie on Dec 7, 2005 8:10:57 GMT 8
10 speed so our chains will get even narrower? screw Shimano! i'm sticking w/ 9 speed. i don't even need all 9 cogs in my cassette. Correct, actually 9 speed itself is an over tech design, in our entire biking, we never used them all di ba, 10 speed is an exage tech na, frying our brains because of hi-tech new design. ( just like the nokia phones ) anyway that is the co.'s right to design new products, if we hate them, don't buy 'em, nyehehehhhehehehhe
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Post by cobym on Dec 7, 2005 8:30:52 GMT 8
10 speed so our chains will get even narrower? screw Shimano! i'm sticking w/ 9 speed. i don't even need all 9 cogs in my cassette. Correct, actually 9 speed itself is an over tech design, in our entire biking, we never used them all di ba, 10 speed is an exage tech na, frying our brains because of hi-tech new design. ( just like the nokia phones ) anyway that is the co.'s right to design new products, if we hate them, don't buy 'em, nyehehehhhehehehhe Correct ka dyan. Time was when we were all content with 7 speed and 8 speed.
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Post by anthrax76 on Dec 7, 2005 10:58:05 GMT 8
i'm not even thinking of upgrading to 9 speed even if i had a chance, he he he.
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Post by clutchshooter on Dec 7, 2005 11:36:11 GMT 8
10 speed so our chains will get even narrower? screw Shimano! i'm sticking w/ 9 speed. i don't even need all 9 cogs in my cassette. yeah, that's true, brad! I seldom use the 9th. It puts alot of strain to your drivetrain ( big chain ring X big cog combo) and it's a bit inefficient also. Much better to use the next small chainring if the going gets tough! Or li'l to say, bring in Granny to the scene!!! Hey, Grandma!!! ;D Who's your daddy!
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Post by bernie on Dec 7, 2005 18:54:39 GMT 8
Yep, if we wish a ten speed bike, then better use a racer, a roadie, nyeheeeheheh
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Post by janix on Dec 7, 2005 20:09:35 GMT 8
ano ba ang difference ng road cogs sa mtb?
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