Full Rigid SSers

[cobym]

Share your experiences, tips, pics, whatever on riding without any suspension (off road).

I just tried out my full rigid ss at maarat last saturday and its a totally new experience. Its like the same old maarat-giant loop was a new trail.

[sup]

Random Ramblings Riding Rigid (RRRR):

It’s the reason why front shocks were created. ;D

Endo-ing is easy using rigid; endoed twice already (coffee trail in sta. rosa and ‘wet’ nursery in maarat).

Fat front tires are your friend. I’m using specialized adrenaline 2.1’s (looks like 2.3) front and rear as of the moment, but I’d like to try maxxis minions when it’s time to change tires.

Upak trail in sta. rosa killed my right wrist. My right hand went numb for a week. Note to self: don’t chase riders using FS bikes.

I noticed that I hop the front end a lot using rigid to minimize “tagtag”.

I don’t know if I’m paranoid but the bottom bearings of my headset seem grittier than the top one. But maybe I’m just lazy and should’ve cleaned them before I switched the top to the bottom.

This is all on a 26’er. I want to hear from Agu on what’s it like on a 29’er.

[32by18]

here's my 2 centavos worth:

My first SS was on an Azonic KZ1 hardtail with an alloy front fork, and a wide riser bar. Suffice to say my arms and shoulders took a beating when I took it up Sta Rosa. I was running 2.1 knobbies then.

I then transferred the components to a titanium frame. The alloy fork was stiffer, but helped curb the overall flexiness of the frame. It was more comfortable and putting on 2.24 Motoraptors, and learning how to play with tire pressure, did help smooth out the rides. The Mary bars also helped dissipate shocks, since your elbows and shoulders act as levers to absorb impacts. Just lean back a bit, keep a relaxed grip, RIDE IT LIKE A JET SKI (or imagine you're riding one). Learned to relax a bit more, focus on the trail and look for smooth lines. Going down "upak" I could keep them FSers in sight. I rode that bike everywhere I could: in Sta Rosa, Maarat, La Mesa, Survival trail...

Biggest revelation was when I built up the Karate Monkey (now in the loving hands of P.A.). The bigger tires rolled over things easier. The bike was a good 5 pounds heavier than the Ti, but rode so much better. Maybe the added weight helped settle it down in the rough stuff.

The Dambala exhibits the same characteristics as the Monkey's big wheels, but its more responsive to line changes, like going down Roxas trail. As JM said when he tried it out, it felt like a 26er...

Regardless of wheel size, I think going rigid (hehe) is a more involved experience, that requires you to ride smart(er). From trial and error, here's what I learned:

1) Fat tires and lower pressures (i run as low as 25psi) help
2) bar width, height and positioning is key (personal preference of course)
3) learn to pick the smoothest lines
4) keep your speed in check (so you can still do #3)
5) brace your saddle on the inside of your thighs to keep the rear of the bike planted and in control
6) learn to ride light...stay relaxed, muscles supple
7) assume the attack position (crouching, crankarms level, weight slightly over rear wheel) this will allow you to:
8) unweight the front wheel so it floats over bumps

I'm sure other riders will chime in

[Makoy]

my silly experience:
got dragged along with seacid ride to wawa last january 5.

using this rig:
full aluminum fork and a 32x18 gearing
and the sadder part i had 1.5 irc metros on with 80psi



it was scary around the rocky bits and scarrier during those long dips. the sweetest experience was the uphill...it lasted until my tires slipped and i had to unclip

definitely, ill do it again

[kulot_salot]

so it is not that different from riding a BMX...

bigger wheels lang.

when i first tried mountain bike in the early 90s, i thought that mtb/atb were a bit 'flappy' because it soaks up the harshness of the ride by its suspension system...

i'm used to absorbing track features with my shoulder/elbows/arms when racing BMX...

another thing (from a BMXer's POV ;D ) is not to lock your knees... keep it bended... use it also to damp the vibrations/G's

[cobym]

I'm currently running a narrowish flat bar with a 110 mm stem. I find it quite a long stretch. Also, I find the bar position way too low. Its incredible for climbing while seated yes. But, when I stand to pedal, I'm going too far forward that I unweight the rear wheel. Having long 16.9 inch chainstays, this means loss of traction. I'm thinking of getting a shorter stem with a high rise and a riser bar with lots of sweep to compensate. The only problem is that it will ruin the retro look.

Two thing I've learned so far.

1. Steel is indeed real. I used to have an aluminum rigid commuter which was a real brain rattler. Steel tubing really has a softer feeling.
2. Bar tape is the bomb. Using the usual lock on grips was utter punishment on the palms and wrists. Two layers of bar tape instead of grips made my hands (and teeth) happier. Cheaper pa. Plus, you can wrap more of the bar and the bar ends for more hand positions.

[g.b.b]

i sold my rigid fork after the trail experience....... my upper back hurts bigtime. but no pedal bob.... ;D

[manitou]

Rigid is really a great expereince, thanks to boss agu, I learned about smooth lines and softer tires. Its really a back to basics experience which is great. but after some time, you want to have the comfort of a suspension. Finally gave up on rigid fork but do miss it sometimes becuase the climbing experience is much better rigid. the lock out is just not the same.

[jacklero]

first mountain bike was an aluminum rigid current bike is a steel rigid, and have had other bikes in between, what can I say,a rigid bike does not need to be harsh if indeed you play around with a couple of variables, tire pressure, arm position and basically absorbing the impact by pushing and pulling the bike via weight shifting. Uphills is where any rigid setup will shine after all you rarely ride blitzing fast on steep uphill but when the nose is pointing down then a rigid setup is an entirely different proposition as gravity is encouraging you to go faster and there is no other form of cushioning between the ground the bike and you. Overall I say to each his/her own, my personal choice, rigid all the way!

[lloyd]

this thread makes me looked back on my full rigid Cannondale Killer V 500 frame w/ its rigid Pepperoni fork... during climbs and descents, I'll always leave behind all my riding buddies ;D. I just choose my racing line and make my knees and arms also body position absorbed the rough terrains... on the inclines, the rig climbs like a goat... I missed that rig...

[flipnidaho]

my first 10 years of SS'ing was on this bike...

I don't think I'll ever run rigid on a SS again... She sure was (and still is) fast and light though... If your bike does dual duty (lots of road and not too technical trails), then fully rigid is the way to go... But if your bike sees a LOT more dirt, roots and rock, you just can't beat suspension (specially in my old age). Heck, most of my SS now has 5" of travel and I'm thinking about building up a 6" SS...

[wcoastbo]

wow, that klein sure looks stiff! fat tubes, frame and fork, with the integrated stem/bar. she must have been fast on the climbs. how many teeth did you chip rattling down your technical trails on that beauty?

[wcoastbo]

listen to Agu, he knows rigid.

Makoy - your geometry changed a bit when you put that fork on. try using a suspension corrected rigid fork, i'm guessing that frame was made for an 80mm suspension fork. with a taller fork, say 420mm (axle to crown) you'll have more fun on the downhill sections. with the current setup your headtube angle became a bit steep causing the steering to become twitchy on downhills. If your frame was made for a 100mm suspension fork try 435-440mm. my current setup is a 69er rigid frankenbike with 420mm A-to-C. the big front wheel work great on a rigid setup.


when riding on rocky downhill sections, I find this setup to be less prone to endos. why? When I roll off a rock or ledge and my front wheel drops to the ground, the fork doesn't compress bringing my body forward. I didn't realize how much the bike geometry changes when a fork compresses. All that compressing and center of balance shifts makes for unpredictablity when descending rocky sections. I noticed right away how predictable descending was the first ride on rigid. On the con side, I've given up the comfort of front suspension for a harsh ride.

that being said, most of my trails are fairly smooth. long rocky descents are harsh, so when I go to colorado or utah, the f/s bike comes out of hibernation. riding rigid doesn't mean you have to give up suspension, I switch between both sides and enjoy each experience.

[extraFunky]

stay loose on the bar and get some cushy grips. a lot of folks prefer ourys but i really like raceface good+evil grips. it goes in the bar tighter than oury so you don't need some type of glue to hold it in place.

high volume tire in front with lowest psi you can run without getting pinch flats helps a lot.

[jd00]

it the purest of the pure riding a rigid bike, you will be the suspension--the human suspension...

[cherrybomber]

hey Coby! what frame are you using?

yeah steel makes all the difference. and fatty tires. im riding a 2.4 in front mwahahahaha!! dang it, the things got too much rolling resistance so im going to switch back to 2.1

same issue as SUP about a week of hand numbness.

i love it though- no worries about sag, preload, rebound and the rest of that chuva.

love the idea about double wrap tape.. hmmmm... sounds like a plan. did boyet do that for ya?

[cherrybomber]

nice shot man! howd you do the lighting? i thought you got the pic froma catalogue.

methinks your frame is a wee bit small though

2.1 is the minimum width for off road i think even on road actually- good training.

small said:

my silly experience:
got dragged along with seacid ride to wawa last january 5.

using this rig:
full aluminum fork and a 32x18 gearing
and the sadder part i had 1.5 irc metros on with 80psi



it was scary around the rocky bits and scarrier during those long dips. the sweetest experience was the uphill...it lasted until my tires slipped and i had to unclip

definitely, ill do it again

[Makoy]

cherrybomber said:

nice shot man! howd you do the lighting? i thought you got the pic froma catalogue.

methinks your frame is a wee bit small though

2.1 is the minimum width for off road i think even on road actually- good training.

i just did a bit of post processing using photoshop. yeah i know about the small frame, 19" is the biggest they got for that kind of marin

i really didnt plan to go offroad with seacid's group, just got dragged. anyways. i had fun along the way

i believe those 1.5 irc metro's with 80 psi arent reall meant for offroad use

[pitbiker]

Now I'm beginning to think about converting my cinelli rigid to a SS. hehehehe who needs gears anyway?? By the way first time we started riding the good old trails up back in Baguio, we were using rigid MTB's. back then we never knew that a fork suspension ever existed hehehehe..

[cobym]

cherrybomber, I'm using an old Bridgestone Mb-1 which I repainted and (sort of) restored.

I'd like to use 2.4's but my 2.1's barely fit already. The frame only takes a road (130mm) rear hub. So I'm using 1.9's right now.

I just bought the cheapest foam bar tape (P100) and wrapped it myself, stuck the end of the tape into the end of the handlebar and plugged it with the supplied bar end plugs.

I love the simplicity, efficiency, old-school appeal, and parking it beside the fancy full suspension carbon chukchak wunderbikes in trail stops. Hehe.

[sup]

Endo # 3 just happened last Tuesday at La Mesa. Lesson learned: 'wag tutok, baka salpok (Trans: keep distance). Actually, it's not just for rigid riders; it's a newbie mistake ;D

On the way home, I also saw this slogan behind a jeep: Walang matigas na hita sa matulis na batuta! Completely OT.

cobym, you got pm re: a roadie spaced singlespeed hub.

[32by18]

Hi Alan

"Walang matigas na hita sa matulis na batuta" - what's the translation of this? hehe

Back on topic...

Have you tried lowering your tire pressure (I know I've told you this several times na), that may help decrease your braking distance too.

[cobym]

Thanks for the heads up, sup (sup sup I'll look into those hubs you mentioned. Its probably for a track road bike.
My current hubs are the stocker suntour xc comp (with the already impossible to remove 7 speed cassette cogs) and my 105 road hub converted to SS. The 105 is surprisingly smooth rolling and I'm quite happy with them.

[king]

i coby, the road hub should be ok for regular riding, but you'll have to watch out when you go off road. you might be able to (carefully!) stretch the stays out a bit on a steel frame to accomodate a mtb hub.

[sup]

Agu, I'll try it. I'm a bit paranoid 'coz I had a pinch flat the last time we rode SS at the Bilibid tracks. I don't want that to happen again kasi hassle especially if you're riding with a group. I need to remember next time to lessen the pressure once I hit dirt. Thanks! ..Trans: that's bastos mamang drayber ;D

Coby, yep, I think they're for track use. Hope to see your Bridgestone soon!

[cobym]

king said:

i coby, the road hub should be ok for regular riding, but you'll have to watch out when you go off road. you might be able to (carefully!) stretch the stays out a bit on a steel frame to accomodate a mtb hub.

Occurred to me also. Hmmm. Will try it out with my other mtb rear wheel.

[Makoy]

alan,
let me know if you can get hold of those roadie single hub, i also need one for my ss rodie, im not particularly keen with those ss converters, for now it will do.

salamat

[cobym]

I rode La Mesa and its new singletracks with the other SS riders last saturday. Things to note, the low narrow flat bar is a killer in rough descents - twitchy and unstable, it punishes the hands and arms. I'm getting a high rise stem and a high riser bar. Retro XC look be damned.

[manitou]

if you really want to stick to a flat bar. we will be having some niner bars hopefully by next month. they are 28" WIDE!

[Alphabolt]

cobym said:

I rode La Mesa and its new singletracks with the other SS riders last saturday. Things to note, the low narrow flat bar is a killer in rough descents - twitchy and unstable, it punishes the hands and arms. I'm getting a high rise stem and a high riser bar. Retro XC look be damned.

my thoughts exactly ...with SS, lotsa times looks take the backseat : body perservation first ;D ;D