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Post by galcidjr on Jan 10, 2008 11:58:47 GMT 8
I would like to address this question to all... How am I going to prevent inner thigh cramps? And what training/exercise I can do to make it strong? I always experience this on the trails and I want to solve this... Thank you.
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Post by arcireyes on Jan 10, 2008 15:41:35 GMT 8
hi galcidjr, i'm not an expert, but lemme try to answer this out of experience (but this is not "gospel-truth" ha). like you, even if i do respectable saddle time (even during the weekends only, which i presume you also do) i still experience this nasty cramps sa inner thigh (ano ba scientific description niyan hehehe) specially when we do a lot of climbing. on one of my cramps, one P M T B peep advised me that i might not be hydrating myself properly, kasi one of the causes of cramps daw is dehydration. so what i did was to drink more water than what i usually did and the cramp went away, until...... we did a long ride with a lots of climb on a very hot afternoon and it was there again, somebody told me to drink gatorade often to correct mineral deficiency during long, hot and tiring rides, but i got issues with gatorade since on the trail it gets hot and becomes too acidic for my tummy, until somebody told me to mix one tab of HYDRITE with one bottle of water and sip on it once in a while during the rides......and VOILA....ever since i haven't cramp na of course cramp can also be associated to our physical conditioning, no saddle time=cramps during hard rides. sometimes also on bike geometry where our pedal positioning is awkward, check on those factors. and pre-ride and pitstop stretching somehow lessens the attack of cramps as well. siyempre there are a lot of experts here who can perhaps add up to this layman's opinion. but i hope this helps
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Post by radical1962 on Jan 10, 2008 16:24:19 GMT 8
It may also be caused by bad bike set-up. I had experienced this inner thigh pain (not really cramps) because of a too high seat set-up. All I had to do was lower the seat by 3-5mm(!) and the pain just subsided. This was adviced to me by one of the veterans .....
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Post by Ben Dover on Jan 10, 2008 16:52:30 GMT 8
if its not bike setup and hydration related, then prolly you're already on your way to preventing it...i recon, if you can make your thighs cramp then you'll prolly riding hard too.
based on my personal experience, i suffer cramps only when i go beyond my usual efforts..or i'm really out of shape...that is, not riding frequently enough...yeah, i guess the best possible solution to cramps is enough training or ride if you will.
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Post by arcireyes on Jan 10, 2008 17:26:49 GMT 8
to second lamok's opinion: i read or heard somewhere that the best ride daw is the ride where we experience cramps, it means that we have rode hard and pushed ourselves beyond the limit (but it may also be caused by being out of shape)....whatever..... ;D
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Post by meltimtiman on Jan 10, 2008 18:18:38 GMT 8
After considering all of the above and you still have the inner thigh cramps, it is now time for you to strengthen it.
Do squats with a little variation. do the squats with your toes pointing a little out. the more you point outwards the better. A little bit difficult to do but it targets and strengthens the inner thighs. if you do it inward like a sumo wrestler, that targets the outer thighs.
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Post by BrusKO on Jan 10, 2008 20:07:14 GMT 8
Train hard. Don't over hydrate. Stretch as often as you can in between breaks during a ride. These of course are gathered from my experience.
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Post by sup on Jan 11, 2008 0:12:25 GMT 8
hi galcidjr, i remember you telling me that you were stradling the seat during descents. maybe that's what's causing it.
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Post by galcidjr on Jan 11, 2008 9:18:16 GMT 8
hi galcidjr, i'm not an expert, but lemme try to answer this out of experience (but this is not "gospel-truth" ha). like you, even if i do respectable saddle time (even during the weekends only, which i presume you also do) i still experience this nasty cramps sa inner thigh (ano ba scientific description niyan hehehe) specially when we do a lot of climbing. on one of my cramps, one P M T B peep advised me that i might not be hydrating myself properly, kasi one of the causes of cramps daw is dehydration. so what i did was to drink more water than what i usually did and the cramp went away, until...... we did a long ride with a lots of climb on a very hot afternoon and it was there again, somebody told me to drink gatorade often to correct mineral deficiency during long, hot and tiring rides, but i got issues with gatorade since on the trail it gets hot and becomes too acidic for my tummy, until somebody told me to mix one tab of HYDRITE with one bottle of water and sip on it once in a while during the rides......and VOILA....ever since i haven't cramp na of course cramp can also be associated to our physical conditioning, no saddle time=cramps during hard rides. sometimes also on bike geometry where our pedal positioning is awkward, check on those factors. and pre-ride and pitstop stretching somehow lessens the attack of cramps as well. siyempre there are a lot of experts here who can perhaps add up to this layman's opinion. but i hope this helps Thank you Mr. Reyes, The name of the muscle group is Quadricep... Right now I am doing a lot of Squats at the gym to build up this muscle. I will try the Hydrite sir... Thank you again sir.
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Post by galcidjr on Jan 11, 2008 9:20:46 GMT 8
It may also be caused by bad bike set-up. I had experienced this inner thigh pain (not really cramps) because of a too high seat set-up. All I had to do was lower the seat by 3-5mm(!) and the pain just subsided. This was adviced to me by one of the veterans ..... Thank you sir Radical, I will try to mix and match the set up of my bike that have connection with this cramps sir and I will give you feed back afterwards...
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Post by galcidjr on Jan 11, 2008 9:23:19 GMT 8
if its not bike setup and hydration related, then prolly you're already on your way to preventing it...i recon, if you can make your thighs cramp then you'll prolly riding hard too. based on my personal experience, i suffer cramps only when i go beyond my usual efforts..or i'm really out of shape...that is, not riding frequently enough...yeah, i guess the best possible solution to cramps is enough training or ride if you will. Bossing, You are right! I went out of my comfort zone, I shifted to single speed, this is the main reason why I had this cramps... That is why I am looking for ways to strengthen my quadriceps...
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Post by galcidjr on Jan 11, 2008 9:24:41 GMT 8
to second lamok's opinion: i read or heard somewhere that the best ride daw is the ride where we experience cramps, it means that we have rode hard and pushed ourselves beyond the limit (but it may also be caused by being out of shape)....whatever..... ;D Sir Arci, Yes! it is true! I am now addicted with my SS rig, and I want to ride her more....
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Post by jr on Jan 11, 2008 9:26:28 GMT 8
Do lots of squats, leg press and hamstring. This exercises help a lot.
goodluck..
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Post by galcidjr on Jan 11, 2008 9:29:37 GMT 8
hi galcidjr, i remember you telling me that you were stradling the seat during descents. maybe that's what's causing it. Allan, nice to hear from you sir, actually the cramps occured when we are approaching Aling Pina's Lugawan. Then it becomes worst when descending. Maybe the cause is the Climbs... Need to strengthen the quadriceps...
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Post by galcidjr on Jan 11, 2008 9:33:36 GMT 8
Do lots of squats, leg press and hamstring. This exercises help a lot. goodluck.. Bossing JR, I will do it... I am now doing squats light weights with a lot of sets and repeatitions. To give strength and resistance to cramps...
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Post by mtbrider06 on Jan 19, 2008 16:38:06 GMT 8
Several inputs . . ..
1. do not wait till your thirsty, take fluids consistently based on your perspiration rate. Sip small amount on constant interval.
2. Mixed 25% of water to Gatorade to dilute it. better to mix power gel to 1.5L of gatorade with .5L H2O.
3. Don't push yourself to the limits, do it gradually through the days of your ride. It's good you only suffer cramps not heart attack. It's dangerous to push your heart to the limit if your not use to it.
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Post by gadgets88 on Jan 19, 2008 17:09:19 GMT 8
Just want to put a note regarding a QUAD exercise called LEG EXTENSION.
I've been doing some research because of my bad knee and I encountered somewhere saying that LEG EXTENSION is NOT a good exercise for beginners for the simple reason the the shearing stress put on the knees is great when done incorrectly.
Alternative for the leg extension in the LUNGE.
Always concentrate and lift with care!
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Post by galcidjr on Jan 21, 2008 8:27:28 GMT 8
Several inputs . . .. 1. do not wait till your thirsty, take fluids consistently based on your perspiration rate. Sip small amount on constant interval. 2. Mixed 25% of water to Gatorade to dilute it. better to mix power gel to 1.5L of gatorade with .5L H2O. 3. Don't push yourself to the limits, do it gradually through the days of your ride. It's good you only suffer cramps not heart attack. It's dangerous to push your heart to the limit if your not use to it. Thank you for the reminder sir... Hehehe actually I know where to stop and walk the trail instead... No problem with my heart, still can push but my legs specially the inner thigh cannot anymore... Now I am doing squats even without weights, just to strenghten that part...
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Post by galcidjr on Jan 21, 2008 8:29:03 GMT 8
Just want to put a note regarding a QUAD exercise called LEG EXTENSION. I've been doing some research because of my bad knee and I encountered somewhere saying that LEG EXTENSION is NOT a good exercise for beginners for the simple reason the the shearing stress put on the knees is great when done incorrectly. Alternative for the leg extension in the LUNGE. Always concentrate and lift with care! You are absolutely right mr. Gadgets... I am now doing lunges and it will strengthen your Quadriceps...
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Post by wcoastbo on Jan 21, 2008 14:15:19 GMT 8
I think you've received great advice so far. It's probably a combination of things happening so keep trying to find a solution from these suggestions. You mention a symptom that I'm familiar with, so I'll give some ideas that have helped me. After riding and climbing for a consistent 3-4 hours, I will feel a twinge in the inner right thigh. I know what will happen soon... cramps in my quads, then hamstrings and calves. Here are several things that have given me some relief during long rides.
1) Electrolyte replacement. Water is great for hydration, but it doesn't replace the electrolytes you sweat out. If I'm going to ride over 4 hours, then I start replacing my electrolytes within an hour after the ride starts. If I'm going to ride over 6 hours, then I start an hour before the ride. If you start taking electrolytes when you feel cramps, it's already too late. When I'm cramping it usually takes me 15-20 minutes to start feeling the effects of a high concentration electrolyte supplement. BTW proper electrolyte replacement won't have sugar or very little. High sugar drinks tend upset my stomach and do very little to reduce my cramps.
2) Change up your rhythm. If I sit and spin too long, I tend to cramp sooner. I like to change my rhythm by mixing spinning in a low gear and standing & mashing in a tall gear.
3) Eat. Food that's high in sodium and/or potassium.
4) Stretch.
5) Rest. Take a 5-10 minute break, this is a good time to eat and stretch.
6) Training. The more you ride the less you'll cramp as you get stronger and your body changes.
On long endurance rides I'm constantly taking electrolyte supplements, every 30 minutes for the duration of the ride.
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Post by galcidjr on Jan 21, 2008 15:54:24 GMT 8
I think you've received great advice so far. It's probably a combination of things happening so keep trying to find a solution from these suggestions. You mention a symptom that I'm familiar with, so I'll give some ideas that have helped me. After riding and climbing for a consistent 3-4 hours, I will feel a twinge in the inner right thigh. I know what will happen soon... cramps in my quads, then hamstrings and calves. Here are several things that have given me some relief during long rides. 1) Electrolyte replacement. Water is great for hydration, but it doesn't replace the electrolytes you sweat out. If I'm going to ride over 4 hours, then I start replacing my electrolytes within an hour after the ride starts. If I'm going to ride over 6 hours, then I start an hour before the ride. If you start taking electrolytes when you feel cramps, it's already too late. When I'm cramping it usually takes me 15-20 minutes to start feeling the effects of a high concentration electrolyte supplement. BTW proper electrolyte replacement won't have sugar or very little. High sugar drinks tend upset my stomach and do very little to reduce my cramps. 2) Change up your rhythm. If I sit and spin too long, I tend to cramp sooner. I like to change my rhythm by mixing spinning in a low gear and standing & mashing in a tall gear. 3) Eat. Food that's high in sodium and/or potassium. 4) Stretch. 5) Rest. Take a 5-10 minute break, this is a good time to eat and stretch. 6) Training. The more you ride the less you'll cramp as you get stronger and your body changes. On long endurance rides I'm constantly taking electrolyte supplements, every 30 minutes for the duration of the ride. Sir Bo actually I converted my bike to SS and now I am mashing the pedal when climbing. The one always on cramps is the inner thigh near the knee or the quadriceps, I am now doing squats but I dont know which excercise is targeting that part. But its new to me that we have to load electrolytes before we do biking like what you said in no.1... I will try it and update you on the result. Thank you for the advise...
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Post by wcoastbo on Jan 22, 2008 2:19:20 GMT 8
galcidjr, how long into your ride before the cramps start up? it may not be loss of electrolyte if you're cramping within an hour or 90 mins. what gear do you use on the SS? if it's too tall you might want to add a cog with a couple of more teeth. I started at 34x21 before my current setup of 36x20. you may be sitting more than you realize during your climbs. pushing a tall gear while seated could bring on cramps, it does for me. As arci and radical mentioned, check your geometry and seat position. A tall gear combined with a seat that's too high or too far back could bring cramps sooner. as you can see from everyone's responses there are a lot of possible factors, you need to start eliminating them.
@ arci - what is hydrite? I'm not familiar with that product. what's the main ingredient. for some reason, my body chemistry makes me prone to cramping and I'm constantly looking for new supplements. thanks.
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Post by galcidjr on Jan 22, 2008 10:14:10 GMT 8
Sir Bo , right now I am using 32x19 and I climb seated... sometimes I stand but mostly seated. Cramps occur after 2 hrs or more of riding (80% of the trails). BTW, Hydrate is oral rehydration salt used by people suffering from diarrhea and vomitting. It replaces the electrolytes you lost... It is in tablet form then you just dilute it in water... Thank you sir for the inputs
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Post by wcoastbo on Jan 22, 2008 11:09:43 GMT 8
Sounds like your situation is similar to my cramping problems. Try these and see how it works.
1) since you sit and climb, get a lower gear such as 32x20. as you get stronger in the next few months you can go back to 32xs19, then 32x18, then 32x17, ... you're sitting and climbing with a pretty tall gear so your legs must be plenty strong, maybe you just need to work on conditioning.
2) stand more when you climb, especially the steep sections. SS is all about standing and using power when climbing the steeps. adjust your bar height so that you're using your arms and back to pull on the bars when pushing on the pedals. if you have long arms getting a lower rise stem, or vice versa. without standing you're putting a good deal of stress on the knees. you might also want to move your seat forward so that you're knees are over the pedal (read up on KOPS if you haven't done so).
3) in my case, I seemed to be depleting my sodium when sweating (I always have a powdery white substance on my body, jersey and helmet straps when the sweat dries. take the salt out of your diet when you're not riding, that way your body gets used to have less sodium. when riding, pre-hydrate with electrolytes and keep taking them during the ride, at 30 minute intervals. It sounds like this "Hydrate" suppliment will do the job. Sodium may not be enough, your electrolytes also contain potassium and a bit of calcium and trace amounts magnesium. Go to a tri-athlete shop and see if they have Hammer Nutrition products such as "Endurolyte" capsules (that's what I live on during endurance rides). I also use an Amino-Vital product called "Endurance" (powder form). I don't know what's available to you locally, but start with the Hydrate. There are many foods that can be used as substitutes, the products I mentioned are easy, convenient and marketed to athletes, therefore expensive. Tums and Rolaids are high in sodium and help an upset stomach.
bottom line, you need to find what works for you. I had to do a lot of experimenting and I still ask elite endurance athletes for advice when I get the opportunity.
good luck, I'm sure you'll get a handle on the cramping soon.
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Post by galcidjr on Jan 22, 2008 11:25:28 GMT 8
Thank you Sir Bo... Endurance is available here in the Philippines and i used it before. It prevents me from cramps... Anyways, I will try to practice standing on steeps so to relieve some muscles on my quadriceps while climbing... Isnt it if i go down to 32x20 i will do a lot of spinning??? because the trails that I am riding is a mix of dirt and road(Sta. Rosa) so I think the best way is to go to the gym and do some squats... Thank you again bossing...
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