|
Post by bernie on Oct 17, 2005 14:05:20 GMT 8
www.srsuntour-cycling.com/standard.xml?vpID=182Those old riders here like me, knows that Suntour is the mortal enemy of Shimano during the late 80's and the early 90's but it has gone down. ( during that time, Campagnolo has MTB lines, Sunrace still at lo-ends ) They come back with a vengeance, but do you think they can get the heart of MTBiker's again like before, now that SRAM, Truvativs, Avid etc. is the Co., that is competing Shimano What do you think fellow padyakeros.
|
|
|
Post by coolangot ☺ on Oct 17, 2005 15:03:00 GMT 8
Not really been long sa cycling, but I think Suntour wants to comeback pero it looks like they don't have a strategy pa. Looks like they want to have a head on collision with Shimano.
I think unless they focus on a niche market they'll get beaten by Shimano easily.
As Sun Tzu said: "If he sends reinforcements everywhere, he will everywhere be weak."
my dos sentimos ;D
|
|
|
Post by omel on Oct 17, 2005 15:15:41 GMT 8
nice attempt for a comeback( yup m familiar with sr suntour but even back then they could not stand up against the big "S". ). but unless they do something to spark up their image, (improve on their shocks) i dont think they can nudge out shimano even just a bit . ( o.t., mavic, believe it or not, came out with a gruppo for mtb also way back around mid 90's, but shimano still blew them out of the water) thats y SRAM deserves credit for taking some of shimano's market share.
|
|
|
Post by bernie on Oct 17, 2005 16:51:18 GMT 8
Suntour-any relationship with SR Sakae?
|
|
|
Post by PT on Oct 17, 2005 21:05:34 GMT 8
avids all the way ... !!
|
|
|
Post by gilbs72 on Oct 17, 2005 22:19:40 GMT 8
For those too young to remember (like me), here's an article (I just found) on the rise-and-fall of Suntour... "Sunset for Suntour" www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/page35.htm "In late 1989, Mori Industries Inc., a Japanese steel tubing company, bought Sakae Ringyo Ltd. Sakae made handle bars, chainwheels, pedals, and seatposts. In mid-1990, Mori bought Maeda SunTour. Essentially, Mori assumed SunTour's debts. Shortly afterwards, Mori combined the two acquisitions. The new company was named SR SunTour. "BTW sirs, any info on where to find the SR Suntour disc brakes and around how much?
|
|
|
Post by bernie on Oct 18, 2005 8:42:43 GMT 8
I donno if there's available suntour DB in the LBS. I have a Generic Frame alum bike with Suntour Gruppo, They are all Made in Japan unlike the present one that is Made in taiwan, anyway it doesn't matter as long as they retain the quality.
|
|
nadette
All-Mountain Rider
Posts: 151
|
Post by nadette on Oct 18, 2005 16:28:51 GMT 8
anyway it doesn't matter as long as they retain the quality. amen to that!!
|
|
|
Post by bernie on Oct 18, 2005 17:32:22 GMT 8
anyway it doesn't matter as long as they retain the quality. amen to that!! yep, Just like Shimano, they pass the labor of 05 LX hubs to Malaysia yet retains its toughness.
|
|
|
Post by gilbs72 on Oct 18, 2005 20:41:51 GMT 8
amen to that!! yep, Just like Shimano, they pass the labor of 05 LX hubs to Malaysia yet retains its toughness. Although there were indeed some quality issues (as with any company), I don't think it was quality that brought down Suntour in the 80's. It was mostly lack of continuous innovation and perhaps some wrong corporate decisions. This means SR Suntour today is still capable of making good products at good prices.
|
|
|
Post by coolangot ☺ on Oct 18, 2005 21:28:30 GMT 8
Guys, do you think you can make a decent "suntour" only bike ( a simple xc bike ) these days? I was thinking if this is possible. Of course you can use other brand components ( basta walang Shimano ). Mas cheaper kaya? Anyone in for the challenge?
|
|
|
Post by jr on Oct 18, 2005 21:36:44 GMT 8
The only time Suntour to comeback is hire Shimano and Sram Eng. developement. It there mistake in the mid 90's when they had a change to design a new product instead of sticking with there old technology..but they don't they interested taking more profits. Dont get me wrong they are the best component out there at the time.
For my own opinion it hard for them to comback..need lots of denero.
|
|
|
Post by gilbs72 on Oct 18, 2005 22:51:27 GMT 8
Maybe if Suntour never became No. 1, we would not be this critical of the company today. Yet we give SRAM/Avid, SunRace, Truvative, etc. better chance at competing with Shimano. I realized that we actually give a new company an even better chance of competing for top place. Yet these companies also have to contend with the same problems (money, corporate strategy, etc.) but also they don't have the same experience as Suntour. The problems I foresee with Suntour: 1. DEBT 2. IMAGE I think if someone is willing to invest good money and a good marketing group to help salvage the image, then they're good to go. They will probably be better than any company who hasn't been No. 1 at all. I think there's a good chance for a comeback. I checked their website and products and it seems there are new corporate-brains at work at Suntour. I noticed their product offerings are no longer limited to groupsets--now includes suspension forks, seatposts, etc.--and they are concentrating on value (placing their products in that slightly lower niche which Shimano does not pay much attention to), as well as concentrating more on OEM equipment than aftermarket. As with any business, there is never any guaranty for success. But I see a chance. Opinion lang po... a more thorough study would probably yield a different opinion.
|
|
|
Post by jr on Oct 18, 2005 23:34:03 GMT 8
Competing with Shimano is just like competing with giant Microsoft. Suntour need to find a new product line that will interest the consumers. Now a days most of the avid riders with least than 6 years experience they dont eve know Suntour. Most of them only know Shimano, capagnalo (road) and sram (will known component). The riders know Suntour are the old school that have more that 10 years riding experience. Even SRAM having a hard time competing, so what they did.. they bougth rockshox, Avid, truvativ but still they have to fallow shimano compatibility to survive. Even I'm hearing Sram are better than shimano but people going to the branded name. Remember shimano spend money in advertising and lots of indoresement to market there product. If not mistaken they probably own the market about 60 to 70% for bike component.
|
|
|
Post by gilbs72 on Oct 18, 2005 23:37:51 GMT 8
Hehe... parang nagiging case study na eto sa MBA ah.
|
|
|
Post by jr on Oct 19, 2005 0:05:23 GMT 8
Hehe... parang nagiging case study na eto sa MBA ah. ;D ;D..this is common on business perspective.
|
|
|
Post by bernie on Oct 19, 2005 9:29:05 GMT 8
Guys, do you think you can make a decent "suntour" only bike ( a simple xc bike ) these days? I was thinking if this is possible. Of course you can use other brand components ( basta walang Shimano ). Mas cheaper kaya? Anyone in for the challenge? Lucky me, I have still a Complete Gruppo of Suntour in my Generic Hard Tail Frame, but the price before is expensive (those days)still coz it's all made in japan pa. Im still using it going to office.
|
|
|
Post by bernie on Oct 19, 2005 9:31:44 GMT 8
Another thing in my opinion, heheheh Suntour must coordinate with RC of MTBAction Mags for ads but this will cost them a lot ( i guess coz it's an elite mags but is very effective on ads )
|
|
|
Post by coolangot ☺ on Oct 19, 2005 22:21:07 GMT 8
Are there any Pros who use a Suntour "loaded" equipment?
|
|
|
Post by mtb_racer on Oct 20, 2005 7:42:39 GMT 8
Yes, why MTB action focuses only on Hi-end lines? MTB Action Mags is an effective way to market a certain product.
You are right, Suntour must coordinate with them to give them positive evaluations and print ads ( in w/c they --suntour---will pay lots of bucks )well that's investment.
|
|
|
Post by jr on Oct 20, 2005 9:15:24 GMT 8
Are there any Pros who use a Suntour "loaded" equipment? As far as I know none...mostly pros use Shimano and Sram in components.
|
|
|
Post by mtb_racer on Oct 20, 2005 10:42:57 GMT 8
If i will assemble a new MTB with new Suntour Gruppo, I guess some riders will say, "Suntour lang yan" this maybe a reason why other peeps avoiding suntour ( my dirty mind, bwahahahhaha ) as other peeps saying to my ex-fork- "RST lang yan, MOB lang yan, GTS lang yan, Generic lang yan".
Therefore Suntour must catch the heart of the mtbikers.
|
|
|
Post by marcs on Oct 20, 2005 11:05:31 GMT 8
they have to determine exactly what is the equity of the suntour name. doesn't mean that just because you've got the latest and best technology doesn't mean users will automatically be attracted to it (take Mac, they've had a sort of windows interface for quite some time but people didn't buy into it, then years later here comes Windows by pareng Bill and now it is indispensible).
unfortunatey, like nard said, Suntour name may be equated with entry level parts, and any high end parts they may come up with would only be 'expensive entry level parts'
bottomline, i think they should re-invent themselves, perhaps creating a new name for higher end parts and keep Suntour to the less expensive entry level components. they may also re-think their strategy of trying to enter into too many product lines, which stretches out resources and makes them lose focus on winning in key segments. focus on what they can win first then stick to it, get profit, then re-invest.
with so many lines, anything that doesn't perform that well gets attributed to the entire Suntour name, and thus damaged na naman ang equity nya.
end of the day, they need to slowly drive trials on several winning lines. generate enough usage and awareness such that riders would actually recommend rather than say 'Suntour lang yan'
|
|
|
Post by jr on Oct 20, 2005 12:12:13 GMT 8
They made a mistake as most well known company. I don't know why when the up there they think they are undestructable (like Mac and IBM). Remember microsoft was just like a flea trying to get business with this two giant co. Now they got step on.
As I said they should re think their product line by new technology and make accusation to go up there. But now a days its hard because most small companies got eaten with big companies. If the small companies if not be eaten will end up bankrupt. What they do is, the big company will drop their prices until the small company end up negative of their sales. This could be the reason why Suntour don't want to take a chance to play in high end product line cause taking to much risk or could be a financial problem. Shimano is looking of all there competitor. So far how many times they change their product line and try to drop their competitor. If you think about it they are all the same technology but looks are better.
|
|
|
Post by mtb_racer on Oct 20, 2005 17:42:09 GMT 8
They need promotions, advertisings, a good website, and good reviews from the user.
You think, if they will produce a product w/c price is "elite" like the XTR's, higher SRAMs, etc you think it can help them coz peeps will think, expensive parts means something???
|
|
|
Post by mtb_racer on Oct 20, 2005 17:44:04 GMT 8
Look at Sun Race, before its brand is attached to Mall Bikes now they are Big Time. What happened to Dia Compe and Sugino anyway?
|
|