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Post by joes on May 24, 2006 13:42:01 GMT 8
Ad Hominem - kill the fuching messenger. hehehe.
it's an introductory. i have some in store.
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Post by BrusKO on May 24, 2006 13:42:19 GMT 8
let's talk about freewill! if a devine being already knows what's instore for you, as if you are already predestined, what use do you have for freewill? Padre, are you talking about the Catholic God? If so, I think ( I remember) that the Catholic God gave you freewill. That's why you my friend, can choose not to believe in Him. Don't get me wrong Joe.... I'm just serving as a "devil's advocate" (no pun intended). Wala akong kinakampihan.
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Post by joes on May 24, 2006 13:44:59 GMT 8
@ brusko - no problem sir. i'm being an advocate myself. i love healthy conversations/discussions.
mga brad. usapan lang ha. walang pikunan. ;D
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Post by Ben Dover on May 24, 2006 13:47:55 GMT 8
let's talk about freewill! if a devine being already knows what's instore for you, as if you are already predestined, what use do you have for freewill? uy! malalim na ito. we are already talking about christian doctrines here...joes, just want you to know with my little knowledge on these things..if you are limiting your question to roman catholics only ok lang...but for all the various christian religions and their denominations, iba iba ang paniwala dyan..paalala lang.
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Post by joes on May 24, 2006 13:57:25 GMT 8
@ tolits - i'm trying to simplify discussions by not injecting religion first. try approaching it from a philosophical standpoint.
@ jovel - easy brad. hehehe. ang puso mo ang puso!
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Post by BrusKO on May 24, 2006 13:58:28 GMT 8
With all due respect Jovell, I need not visit another thread. All I have to do is read through your posts here. You criticize the Catholics, yet, when you're on the hot seat, you tell me to come to you so I could get to know you better. How about you get to know a true Catholic better before criticizing them? Wag magalit padre... takot ako sa malaking katawan.
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Post by BrusKO on May 24, 2006 14:01:11 GMT 8
@ tolits - i'm trying to simplify discussions by not injecting religion first. try approaching it from a philosophical standpoint. @ jovel - easy brad. hehehe. ang puso mo ang puso! Philosophy101... Gusto ko yan! Cogito Ergo Sum!
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Post by joes on May 24, 2006 17:20:59 GMT 8
panay latin phrases yan brusko a. ex-seminarista ka ba? hehehehe.
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Post by BrusKO on May 24, 2006 18:27:26 GMT 8
panay latin phrases yan brusko a. ex-seminarista ka ba? hehehehe. dehins ser... No, I just read
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Post by anshwa on May 25, 2006 1:01:19 GMT 8
The thread is entitled Catholic on Hot Seat so I felt compelled to respond to this. Make note though, di pikon 'to. It's in the spirit of discussion. ;D It's a public forum that a lot of people have access to. We need to relay as much info as possible. - you say you're catholic, but you have buddahs and shivas around your house. - you say you're a christian, yet you follow chinese traditions. That’s the beauty of Catholicism. The Catholic church doesn’t want to stop you from practicing your cultural beliefs. It’s main thrust is to infuse unto people the teaching of Christ on how to treat others. Go to Mexico & you’ll see that their ancient practices are infused into the Sunday mass. Same in Lucban, Quezon or in Manila. However, if you’re talking about a Catholic believing in Shiva, that’s a totally different story. I don’t remember seeing a statue of the Buddha or Shiva in my grandmother’s house. This is sort of a problem here. When the religious (& I mean any denomination) dismiss any new scientific finding that explains a subject matter about the world we live in, they’re ignorant. When they try to understand a certain finding and how it relates to their book of teaching (in this case, the Bible), they’re dismissed as hypocritical or even much worse. So where do you want the religious to go? This is true for both the religious and the non-religious. Now this is a foul statement. To practically say those who choose to follow a religion are hypocrites is no different from a religious saying those who do not believe in God would be bad people. We live in the 21st century. The Church recognizes the different beliefs of different societies. Don't get me wrong, though. I'm not blind to the fact that there are still a number of extremists in any denomination - much like those who do not believe in anything - di ba may anarchists? But fact of the matter is that these extremists are more exceptions than the rule. I don't know where you got this... And you could name a religion that does not have any followers who don’t actually follow every teaching in their sect? Let’s be real. Again, let’s respect our individual beliefs. I don’t remember reading any post here that actually stated Atheists are evil so let's do the same for Catholics (or any belief for that matter). Sorry, I guess I just hated reading that my late devout grandparents were labeled hypocrites. They defined the word PARENT in it's purest form. It's all good, though. It's a discussion. Peace!
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Post by joes on May 25, 2006 13:09:45 GMT 8
RE: dinosaurs
15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. 16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. 17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. 18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. 19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him. 20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. 21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens. 22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about. 23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth. 24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.
-Job 40:15-24
- i have more instore but i'm gonna be busy the entire afternoon. i'll catch up with you guys later!
@ anshwa - great reply dude!
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Post by marcs on May 25, 2006 14:01:27 GMT 8
@ tolits - i'm trying to simplify discussions by not injecting religion first. try approaching it from a philosophical standpoint. @ jovel - easy brad. hehehe. ang puso mo ang puso! Philosophy101... Gusto ko yan! Cogito Ergo Sum! Actually, it's Philosophy 104 that is the Philosophy of Religion hehehehehe
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Post by anshwa on May 25, 2006 21:21:08 GMT 8
@ anshwa - great reply dude! 'Ey, joes! I only replied as good as your post, man. Interesting discussion here!
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Post by rob on May 25, 2006 23:22:04 GMT 8
Hey brusko my man! You know bel ma man is just a kitten at heart but he doesn't know he is an anthiest until I introduced him to his new found belief. Let's respect that. Do not get me wrong brad. I'm a true blue dominican schooled by Fr. Sonny Ramirez. I'm exposed to budhism and Taoisim. I have a first don aikido belt. I'm a believer of respect to everyone brad. that is is you respect opinions of others. If you know your enemy, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. Jovell is a nice guy eventhough he's an atheist. BTW, is this guy banned? for how long
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Post by Alphabolt on May 25, 2006 23:58:34 GMT 8
Credo est absurdum, mga bros
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Post by rob on May 26, 2006 0:04:23 GMT 8
preference my man....
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Post by joes on May 26, 2006 1:51:05 GMT 8
what's with the latin phrases?!?!?! hehehe. you make me go wiki. - my mahn here, muscle boy, he has a tendency to be blunt. but take his responses in good faith. he just want to discuss some issues. i hope he get's reinstated as soon as possible.
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Post by joes on May 26, 2006 2:19:34 GMT 8
time: 2am - just got back from a nightride.
sharing lang po. i was sort of in the mood.
"a little knowledge is a dangerous thing."
i've been through catholic schools for 17 years. i started questioning my religion as early as my sophomore year in high school. having philosphy classes in the uni opened my eyes. it was ok to question. but i was very rude back then. i would often open the topic even if it was unsolicited. but with age comes maturity. you leave people alone with what they're happy about.
i'm not even sure if i'd qualify as an atheist. i have alot of questions heeding answers that most cannot provide. maybe i'm gonna be like this for quite some time, i really don't know.
i started this discussion with a question "why do bad things happen to good people?"
my answer came in the form of a bumper sticker. "sh!t happens."
when i started to realize how deep that seemingly humorous phrase was, i was relieved of earthly worries. i'm not saying that i'm happy being this way, but i get on with my life without ever worrying ever whenever something unfortunate happens.
i started believing more on science. mathematics. tangible things. it's hard to deal with the devine. it was easier for me to deal with problems this way. i think about a problematic situation, then give it a more tangible explanation rather than a devine one. it gives me a little more confidence in dealing with it rather than asking for devine intervention.
i tend to rely on probability. what are the chances of this accident happening? what are the odds? was it inevitable? probability gives me some control over my life. i don't want to think we're predestined and that the choices we make is just for show. i don't want to be a pawn.
more likely, the reason i do this is because i haven't been dealt a problem without foreseeable solutions. OR, with irony in play, is this the result of me being able to analise situations?
life's a bi-tch sometimes. we're too busy to deal with things like this. we're all working hard for our own concerns. life in the 21st century doesn't give you the luxury of time to be able to really really think about these things. instead you settle for what has been there. not that there's anything wrong with it.
knowlege has no guarantee that it'd make you happy. wisdom has.
to those who remain in their faith, you are all wise and may your beliefs provide you with the happiness you seek. as for the inquisitive (like me), may time provide you with the wisdom that others have so easily found.
to those in doubt, in the words of a mason friend, "the truth is in your heart."
P.S. - a prude post is so uncanny of me.
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Post by joes on May 26, 2006 7:36:33 GMT 8
this is what i'm talking about. the discussions here have lead me to ask even more questions!
anyone here willing to discuss how the bible came about? no wiki please, been there! hehehehe.
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Post by Ben Dover on May 26, 2006 9:47:18 GMT 8
ganda ng sinabi ni joes... sa akin...maybe (not sure) this is what Christ meant when he said we should be like children...wala ng mas makulit mag tanong kaysa bata...fact is after graduating in college and board review i went straight to a bible school run by our church...there i learned things were more complicated than i first thought...words used/mentioned in the bible were translated back to original languange it was written (or earliest available)...the word as simple as "hell" in pala doesnt refer only one thing na usually naiisip natin dami pala...minsan pala tumutukoy sa physcal place somewhere in israel etc...same with other words...pipol usually forgot that bible was written thousands of years ago when situation, culture and even the way pipol speak were a lot different..context ika nga...den you suddenly see pipol na nakabasa lang ng konti sa bible nangaral na..kinda made me think minsan yan yata ang cause ng problema..."little learning or knowledge sabi nga ni joes. ako naniniwala that "the first step in learning is accepting your ignorance"...i believe thats what God has been telling us...we cannot learn while talking...lets take time to listen what other folks have to say...if we take that attitude as if we already know everything palagay ko we are already limiting ourselves from further possbilities of learning and other things..bato ka na nun. i lso believe, kung ano man tayo ngayon..hindu,atheist,budhist,muslim, catholic, inc etc...doesnt mean you will die still within the same religion..lets respect each other at baka bukas pari, imam nyo na yan. you may ask...bakit di ko natapos bible school?...c'mon pipol, shite happens
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Post by Ben Dover on May 26, 2006 10:20:10 GMT 8
opinion ko lang...when you entered into a discussion in a blunt manner what do you expect? pipol will suddenly turn soft with their waggling tails between their legs? if they answer bluntly or more bluntly, take it...you had it coming.
i always give high regards w/ sometimes a bit of apprehension to pipol who show so much respect to their fellowmen...because these are the pipol who have the grasp to the reality of what he is capable and what the other people are also capable of doing...never underestimate your opponent.
believe you me...i live in the slum area of pasig...yung mga malulupit at mamamatay tao dito they call you sir or boss.
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Post by rob on May 26, 2006 14:44:10 GMT 8
people with no remorse ey tolits? i believe christ said be "childlike" and there is a difference between the former and being childish.. hehe
Live and let live - Lennon
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Post by whoopi on May 26, 2006 14:57:47 GMT 8
JOES, exactly how it went with me too, i just don't worry anymore one way or the other, i figure i'd live my life the same way whether there is or there isn't a god, or whatever kind of supreme being there is, if there is.
i still envy some people for their certainty though, even though i may not share their beliefs. i've a friend who is a missionary in uganda. his daily life is surrounded by unbelievable violence--child warriors slaughtering people like they're animals, walking into a room and seeing his friends murdered in cold blood--yet he never wants to leave. he's so sure, you know? i wish i had faith like that.
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Post by joes on May 26, 2006 15:01:53 GMT 8
i wish i had faith like that too. unfortunately i was only blessed with curiosity.
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Post by rob on May 26, 2006 16:08:04 GMT 8
man is a social animal. however, sometimes we also have difference in beliefs and likes. So i suggest we dirink and be merry!
"Faith" is a kick arse FS frame! available a power bikes. hahaha
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Post by forcebinder on May 26, 2006 16:11:19 GMT 8
ha! nice!
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Post by whoopi on Jun 1, 2006 9:19:19 GMT 8
i wish i had faith like that too. unfortunately i was only blessed with curiosity. speaking of faith, last weekend in banaue our ifugao guide was telling us how plenty of pagans in the mountains converted to christianity, lalo na daw the old people. they just couldn't stay alert during the 2-day religious rituals anymore. e sa catholicism daw, 1 hour every Sunday lang solved ka na. ;D
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