|
Post by gadgets88 on Jul 26, 2007 9:41:36 GMT 8
Nickel Cadmium en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-cadmium_batterySome things they don't tell you in electronic schools • Nicad & NiMH should be discharged to 1% & recharged to 99%. Discharged batteries should be charged within 1 hour to avoid weakening the charging capability of the batteries. (see charger manuals) • Nicads are toxic • Unused batteries left in equipment encourages leaking. Remove & store in a dry place. • check every 2 months, unused batteries (if not going to be used) should be fully discharged & fully recharged again before restocking them. • batteries stored more than 3 months without discharging & recharging may cause batteries to lose charging capacity. Just a few thoughts that came to mind. The book I'm writing will take forever to finish! I haven't gotten past the design of the cover page! and the title! How about: Nagging thoughts of a gadget-man? ;D
|
|
|
Post by Dragunov on Jul 26, 2007 11:36:31 GMT 8
Nickel Cadmium en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-cadmium_batterySome things they don't tell you in electronic schools • Nicad & NiMH should be discharged to 1% & recharged to 99%. Discharged batteries should be charged within 1 hour to avoid weakening the charging capability of the batteries. (see charger manuals) • Nicads are toxic • Unused batteries left in equipment encourages leaking. Remove & store in a dry place. • check every 2 months, unused batteries (if not going to be used) should be fully discharged & fully recharged again before restocking them. • batteries stored more than 3 months without discharging & recharging may cause batteries to lose charging capacity. Just a few thoughts that came to mind. The book I'm writing will take forever to finish! I haven't gotten past the design of the cover page! and the title! How about: Nagging thoughts of a gadget-man? ;D how about "read at your own risk" ;D
|
|
|
Post by arcireyes on Jul 26, 2007 11:41:52 GMT 8
brad., to add to your mind's confusion. the reason why nickel cadmium batteries (NiCD) are one of the electronics/electrical components banned in the EU's ROHS Regulation. NiCD batteries, for environmental considerations and developing countries strict environment rules are now being replaced by Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) batteries. want to be confused some more?? ;D
|
|
|
Post by gadgets88 on Jul 26, 2007 17:25:43 GMT 8
Nickel Metal Hydrites are replacing NiCds because their power density is better, meaning it can store more charge for the same size.
They do not contain the toxic metal Cadmium, thereby not posing a disposal problem.
They last longer in the sense that NiCds die faster bec of the way NiCds have memory effect and people usually just charge it without proper draining.
The disadvantage of NiMH is that they drain even when not in use, faster than the 30% loss per month of NiCds
|
|
|
Post by Alphabolt on Jul 26, 2007 18:36:04 GMT 8
All true
All true
|
|
ungas
Free Rider
mamatay ka sa kaka smite kupal
Posts: 317
|
Post by ungas on Jul 27, 2007 2:47:03 GMT 8
mga sir, a little ot. how about li-ion batteries? i have 3 of them and they all died the same time. are they also the same as NiMh?
|
|
|
Post by gadgets88 on Jul 27, 2007 8:47:15 GMT 8
We mentioned that Nickel Metal Hydrites are replacing NiCds because their power density is better, meaning it can store more charge for the same size. The same is true with Li-Ion. Li-Ions have even higher power density that NiMHs, meaning, a single Li-Ion battery can replace several cells of NiCds or NiMHs. Imagine the space and weight savings. NiCds lose their charge at an approximately 1% per day even when not in use. This translates to more than 30% loss every month. That is why we should discharge and recharge every 2 months to be sure. Remember that when NiCds go down to 1% of their charge, it is important to recharge IMMEDIATELY! An hour or 2 later and the chemicals will start to die. The battery doesn't totally die instantly, rather, little by little, the chemicals inside will refuse to recharge once it dies. I believe this death is irreversible but some technology claims to be able to revive NiCds to life. I highly doubt it. The technology that dumps high voltage or high current to revive a NiCd is simply not worth pursuing in the sense that it can cause the battery to implode or explode (bad), or leak (also bad). It's so much healthier to go buy a new 1. Now NiMH turned out to be worse because the loss of charge when stored is 5X faster than NiCds! Li-Ion fixed that problem. Li-Ion more sophisticated, contains circuitry that monitors and protects from overcharging. This translates to higher cost (disadvantage). SONY is very good in their marketing department because they took advantage of the Li-Ion technology and boasts itself of having superior intelligent battery technology. But the truth is that, all Li-Ion contains that technology! So don't be fooled! From the standpoint of an electronic teacher (instead of a die-hard fan of a brand) there's virtually no difference in generic batteries from branded ones! The way to keep a Li-Ion in shape is monthly recharging it to maximum. Now, you say your batteries died on you? You kill a Ni-Cd battery by overcharging it, or allowing it to discharge to 0% and not immediately recharging. You kill a NiMH the same way, only, NiMH discharges very fast, so a few days or so, it might need recharging! Remember that Li-Ion contains circuitry. It loses its charge such that it shouldn't die even if you forget to recharge in 3 months. Kill a Li-Ion by using a wrong charger. That's it!
|
|
|
Post by ronaldarca on Jul 27, 2007 9:00:02 GMT 8
now that DC seems interesting... ive been seeing these Rechargeable Alkaline batteries at camera shops and some computer stores... though i havent tried using one, what's your take on this? what's their charge/discharge capacity? and are they really as powerful as their OTC counterparts? thanks in advance - Ron, Philippines (ala-fan mail)
|
|
|
Post by arcireyes on Jul 27, 2007 9:05:11 GMT 8
professor gadgets, can you enlighten or perhaps re-confirm an everyday practical notion that: WRONG cellphone batteries (nowadays mostly NiMH) should be re-charged "ONLY" when the battery is 100% drained. CORRECT cellphone batteries "CAN BE" re-charged even if it is only partially discharged. TIA
|
|
|
Post by losiphile on Jul 27, 2007 14:52:58 GMT 8
professor gadgets, can you enlighten or perhaps re-confirm an everyday practical notion that: WRONG cellphone batteries (nowadays mostly NiMH) should be re-charged "ONLY" when the battery is 100% drained. CORRECT cellphone batteries "CAN BE" re-charged even if it is only partially discharged. TIA Let me share my little knowledge... NiMh can be charge even if its not fully drained, but from time to time, its good to discharge/drained them fully as in cellphone batteries and then re-charge them for battery cycling purposes. NiMh should be at least half-charge if you intend to store and not use them for a period of time. NiCd batteries should be fully discharged before re-charging. NiCd batteries should be fully discharged if you intend to store it and not use for a period of time. Hope this help. ;D
|
|
|
Post by arcireyes on Jul 27, 2007 15:15:39 GMT 8
AHA R/C knowhow ha ;D professor gadgets, can you enlighten or perhaps re-confirm an everyday practical notion that: WRONG cellphone batteries (nowadays mostly NiMH) should be re-charged "ONLY" when the battery is 100% drained. CORRECT cellphone batteries "CAN BE" re-charged even if it is only partially discharged. TIA Let me share my little knowledge... NiMh can be charge even if its not fully drained, but from time to time, its good to discharge/drained them fully as in cellphone batteries and then re-charge them for battery cycling purposes. NiMh should be at least half-charge if you intend to store and not use them for a period of time. NiCd batteries should be fully discharged before re-charging. NiCd batteries should be fully discharged if you intend to store it and not use for a period of time. Hope this help. ;D
|
|
|
Post by gadgets88 on Jul 27, 2007 16:15:03 GMT 8
Losiphile earns 1 positive karma point.
And if you're in my Physics/Electronics class, you get an A+.
|
|
|
Post by pjax on Jul 27, 2007 16:15:55 GMT 8
most cellphone batteries are actually Li-Ion or Li-po (lithium polymer). it's actually healthier for the battery if you charge them frequently, when they are not yet drained. one more thing i've recently been bit my the mini4wd bug and the box says "do not use NiMH batteries" for the motor. Who knows why. Can I use rechargable Li-Ion AA batteries? is there such a thing?
|
|
|
Post by gadgets88 on Jul 27, 2007 16:38:34 GMT 8
Thank you for your letter, Ron. You just won the Most Interesting Question of the Month! We're giving you a free trip to noodletown and a lunch date with none other than the real McCoy, Gadgetman himself. You can ask all you want, any topic under the sun, or rain, or blanket. First, let's take a refresher from an article from Thomas Distributing. thomas-distributing.com/articlelive/articles/14/1/Rechargeable-Batteries-Comparison/Page1.htmlWhat were the real applications alkalines (the ones we used to use) are fitted for in the first place? Alkalines are good for low power consumption devices. Think clocks, remote controllers and radios. However, when using higher power consuming devices, the efficiency ratio goes down. Alkalines produces more heat as power consumption increases. Power runs out faster than normal. To answer which ones to use? Here's Michael Bluejay's site. michaelbluejay.com/batteries/Tito Arci, cellphone batteries are mostly Li-Ion nowadays, right? Li-Ions can be recharge as often as you like. But no hurry actually. The circuitry actually solved all the problems of overcharging, draining, and discharging to the point of failure. In the case of NiMH, they can be charged at any time because they have no memory effect. I do my discharge and recharge every 10 days or so just to keep the battery in tip top shape. So the correct notion is confirmed!
|
|
|
Post by gadgets88 on Jul 27, 2007 17:13:14 GMT 8
one more thing i've recently been bit my the mini4wd bug and the box says "do not use NiMH batteries" for the motor. Who knows why. Can I use rechargable Li-Ion AA batteries? is there such a thing? Haven't seen AA Li-Ion batteries locally. They would be prohibitively expensive if they are available. Would you buy a Li-Ion AA cell at P1000 each? I doubt. The Ansmann NiMH cost something like P600 apiece. Unless you're using it for work like photographers do, or you're using it to race your tamiya with a bet of thousands of pesos on the line, the cost is prohibitive. Did you know why the box says do not use NiMH (or rechargeables)? With alkalines, the voltage drops linearly. With rechargeables, the voltage is maintained until fully drained. What this means, is that your tamiya motor will run at full power all the time and not slow down when using rechargeables. The motor will accumulate damage over time due to the heat buildup, (it doesn't heal like your body, folks!) and die! Using rechargeables also means the ampere-hour rating is high, meaning, you will be running at top voltage for a long, long time, without rest, thereby ultimately destroying the motor probably in 1 use! ;D So when you're racing, use rechargeable! Just stock up your inventory on motors!
|
|
|
Post by sup on Jul 27, 2007 17:39:59 GMT 8
Hehehe! Losiphile with RC talk. (Before PinoyMTBiker, we had rctech.net) That's the reason why NiCds are the only batts I have left for my RC car; you could leave it drained in storage.
The last "in" thing in RC before I focused on MTB was LiPo. LiPo batts can live forever because of low maintenance (no need to discharge and equalize before charging) and long run time. You only needed one battery to race unlike NiMh where you needed at least three (2 qualifying and 3 final heats). Did I mention it was light (Yes, RC racers/hobbyists are the ultimate weight weenies). The only problem was it was relatively expensive, and you need a new charger for it. But as to all hobbies, the initial investment is the costly one (not true if you have an illness called "upgradititis").
Those were the days. I think I retired my RC when I rode my MTB ;D
|
|
|
Post by losiphile on Jul 27, 2007 17:56:05 GMT 8
I read somewhere that when Li-Poly batts were discharged to the max, like running your RC until it drained out every juice in the Li-Poly battery, will definitely ruin your battery to uselessness.
If this is true, then be very careful in using Li-Poly so as not to waste a lot of money.
;D ;D
In RC applications, I still prefer NiCd batts (2400 mah) for its "punch", NiMh for runtime/low maintenance.
Tamiya only levels the playing field by not allowing rechargable batteries and keep their sponsor like panasonic or eveready. ;D
|
|
|
Post by gadgets88 on Jul 28, 2007 9:31:21 GMT 8
In a nutshell,
1. Discharge and recharge your NiCd EVERYTIME.
2. Discharge and recharge your NiMH EVERY MONTH, or every 10th charging session.
Charge them whenever you use NiMH halfway. The trick of keeping NiMH in tip top shape is topping off. Topping off is refilling whatever is lost.
3. There is no need to discharge Li-Ions. Just top off anytime you like.
|
|
|
Post by maxbuwaya on Jul 28, 2007 10:04:13 GMT 8
NimH are expensive. Though CDR king sell some for a cheaper price
How about the
Battery
song by Metallica?
|
|
|
Post by kulot_salot on Jul 28, 2007 10:11:50 GMT 8
hehehehe... ;D ;D anger, the battery within... that's one battery that needs no charging, all you need is jumpstart button and you're ready to go... NimH are expensive. Though CDR king sell some for a cheaper price How about the Battery song by Metallica?
|
|
|
Post by pjax on Jul 29, 2007 13:09:56 GMT 8
the box actually advocated using NiCds instead. and i don't want to kill my motors they cost 1++ apiece!! Are there such a thing as rechargeable alkaline batteries? BTW anyone know THE battery place over at Farmer's Market in Cubao? They specialize in batteries. They'll even suggest the perfect battery for your need (haven't been there though) Did you know why the box says do not use NiMH (or rechargeables)? With alkalines, the voltage drops linearly. With rechargeables, the voltage is maintained until fully drained. What this means, is that your tamiya motor will run at full power all the time and not slow down when using rechargeables. The motor will accumulate damage over time due to the heat buildup, (it doesn't heal like your body, folks!) and die! Using rechargeables also means the ampere-hour rating is high, meaning, you will be running at top voltage for a long, long time, without rest, thereby ultimately destroying the motor probably in 1 use! ;D So when you're racing, use rechargeable! Just stock up your inventory on motors!
|
|
ungas
Free Rider
mamatay ka sa kaka smite kupal
Posts: 317
|
Post by ungas on Jul 29, 2007 18:44:35 GMT 8
Now, you say your batteries died on you? You kill a Ni-Cd battery by overcharging it, or allowing it to discharge to 0% and not immediately recharging. You kill a NiMH the same way, only, NiMH discharges very fast, so a few days or so, it might need recharging! Remember that Li-Ion contains circuitry. It loses its charge such that it shouldn't die even if you forget to recharge in 3 months. Kill a Li-Ion by using a wrong charger. That's it! thanks professor gadget! that was truly informative. one thing for sure though, im using the right charger. it came with the camera (EOS-300D). i tried to charge it again but the indicator light always stay red. btw, my brother said it cost around 3.6t. do you know where i can buy it cheaper? also yesterday i have to use my cordless drill. its almost a year now since the last time i used it. so the batteries are surely dead. i tried to recharge it cos i needed the drill. after 2or 3 hours the batteries were fully charged again. maybe it was pure luck cos they are Ni-MH. thanks again
|
|
|
Post by gadgets88 on Jul 31, 2007 9:22:47 GMT 8
We must be using the same camera. As a photog, a day's work is anywhere between a 3 hour quickie to a whole day affair. The work isn't bad if you're a workaholic like me, but the gourmet food is dangerous to my health! Think... Garlic fried jumbo prawns, Salt-and-pepper-fried crabs, Fried seafood rolls, Fried pigeon with chicharon... And oh... Roasted duck done 3 ways 1. duck skin with onions on lumpia paper eaten ala soft taco 2. fried duck meat with carrots on cabbage eaten ala soft taco 3. duck soup Think eating everything every week or so. Think, sometimes I don't have an assistant with me, and I get to eat double of everything! Must resist temptation... ;D Going back to the topic, I'm using 2 batteries. 1 Branded and 1 generic. I always put on the branded battery and keep shooting until the battery run out. Then I pull it out and put in the generic battery pack and shoot on. This makes usage of both batteries roughly the same number of times, except that the branded 1 gets run down to zero while the back up battery (generic) does not. Both lasted the more than 3 years, which is better than the 2 year life limit I usually experience with NiCds and NiMHs. I only get to recharge both batteries the next day, since I'm dead tired when I get home. Allowing dead batteries uncharged using Ni-Cds and NiMHs for more than 1 hour will definitely kill the batteries, but not Li-Ions. This proves (at least in my case) that running down a Li-Ion does not destroy it. The sign of a Li-Ion failing is when it thinks it is fully charged at the start of the charging process even when it's empty. Another sign is when the indicator of the camera tells you that the battery is low even when you just finished charging it to the max! Which means, no matter how long you charge a dying Li-Ion, it can only be charged to last a few minutes. This tells you that it's high time to buy a new one! I buy generic battery packs at Watsons Photo supply, P.Gomez St, right by the corner of SM Avenida. Tel.7337697. To which I like to ask you the following questions: Is your CANON battery charger the CB-5L? How long did your original Canon Battery pack last? How often did you use it? Recharging habit? Please write, in not less than 500 words, how you took care of your Li-Ions, and how you affected the battery's present self. Class dismissed! Have a nice day!
|
|
|
Post by gadgets88 on Jul 31, 2007 9:58:34 GMT 8
the box actually advocated using NiCds instead. and i don't want to kill my motors they cost 1++ apiece!! Are there such a thing as rechargeable alkaline batteries? If the box specified a certain type of battery, then read carefully. But some people who just wanna win a race will do anything at any cost, no? think TDF. Yes, there are rechargeable alkalines out already. For what purpose, I do not know yet. The comparison between different batteries are contained in this thread. Please go back a few messages. BTW anyone know THE battery place over at Farmer's Market in Cubao? They specialize in batteries. They'll even suggest the perfect battery for your need (haven't been there though) You can educate yourself by asking The Battery Place questions like: How do I take care of NiCds, NiMHs and LiIons? What are the differences between these 3? That way, you know if the discussions here are near bull's eye or not, considering the kind of babble I'm doing in the forums! Didn't somebody said: "Read at your own risk!" ? So proceed to digest the P0.02 worth of consumables in the forums carefully...
|
|
|
Post by gadgets88 on Jul 31, 2007 10:11:27 GMT 8
also yesterday i have to use my cordless drill. its almost a year now since the last time i used it. so the batteries are surely dead. i tried to recharge it cos i needed the drill. after 2or 3 hours the batteries were fully charged again. maybe it was pure luck cos they are Ni-MH. thanks again In the electronics world, you can be lucky or unlucky. The study of Physics gives provides a guide, not a rule of nature as to how things work. Sometimes we get a new gadget and it dies the following day. Don't get discouraged or frustrated. Usually, there's an explanation. Usually we find out. Sometimes, it's not worth pursuing the explanation and just give an outright simple explanation: "Electronics yan eh!" That's life, that's electronics. So you were able to charge the 1 year old battery-powered drill. But how long did it last? And if the battery isn't fully dead yet (the chemicals don't die 100% at the same time), you might be able to use it over and over again, but I discourage. Why? Because the leaking gas ain't healthy. Plain and simple. The amount of money saved in everyday things we do at the cost of abusing our body, I believe, is still less than the money required to fix whatever is wrong with you because of your uneducated habits. Agree or disagree, it's up to you. Glad to be helpful!
|
|
|
Post by gadgets88 on Aug 15, 2007 15:01:22 GMT 8
Update. Although technology will eventually make the FULL-DISCHARGE-AND-RECHARGE practice in rechargeable batteries obsolete, it is still wise to do so from time to time for the purpose of allowing the chemical reaction (disbanding and rebonding) to cycle completely. It's a principle in Chemistry. www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html
|
|
|
Post by gadgets88 on Jan 19, 2008 16:49:56 GMT 8
NimH are expensive. Though CDR king sell some for a cheaper price I tried the cheap rechargeable batteries from CDR King. They are cheaper per se. If you want rechargeables, cheap, get them at CDRK. However, if you compute the ampere ratings, the CDRK batteries are not cheaper (without even checking if the ampere rating is accurate). Considering the lack of quality control of cheap batteries, if you get a lemon unit and it fails after a few uses, it will come out expensive indeed. I suggest you buy reputable brands AND take note the particular models that are fully tested! Example, I buy SANYO rechargeables. it has been found that some models (can't remember, but let's assume it's 2400mA) has been found to die after one year. Other models of the SANYO (again, let's assume lang, the 2700mA last 2 years). Therefore, from experiences of fellow photographers, we learn that the 2700mA is a better buy than the 2400mA (not because of the price but because of the service life of the battery). So I use cheap rechargeables for my kid's toys, or bikes rear blinker, but use expensive rechargeables for my Paraluxeon flashlights and photo equipments. Just an updated idea that came to my mind... End of lecture. 2 cent worth.
|
|
leflea
Free Rider
...
Posts: 327
|
Post by leflea on Feb 4, 2008 17:37:19 GMT 8
|
|