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Post by mountguitars on May 8, 2006 17:30:49 GMT 8
guys, any tips on this rig? i'll use it mainly for XC. 32X18 configuration frame = KHS alite 500 '06 (anodized suweeeet red) crank = deore '03 (32) BB = came off my NRS3. i forgot the brand, hehe. says power thingy on it. fork = RS pilot XC '04 pedals = M520 (was supposed to go for M540's but they're hard to come by and i couldn't wait much longer) seat post = turbo lite saddle = giant OEM (used to be a specialized thingy saddle) and kevlar though and weighs at 250grams, hehe) rims = safety line (rigida) stem = mo*do*lo 100mm, 10 degree rise handle bar = scud (with rise) (says 170grams but on my weighing scale it says 240grams, duh?!) grips = generic GT grips spokes = generic stainless steel with short nipples tires = kenda karma 2.0 (rear), kenda kozmik lite 1.95 (front) converter and tensioner = da bomb (18) brakes = deore v-brakes levers = Avid FR 5 i changed the saddles to something padded becoz i've noticed that when i start pedalling like crazy my butt starts to bob and this saddle is the only that's saving my crotch. the 10 degree stem gives me a lot of control. the bike actually feels like a trials bike coupled with these wide handle bars. my bunny hops and j-hops are easier to do on this bike. considering i couldn't go any faster except pedal like crazy, might as well make the bike easier to handle. am i making any sense? (instead of putting straight handle bars and all like the ones for XC geared setups) any comments that could help me ride better would be of great help. TIA and hope to ride with you soon folks so we could compare, hehe. ;D
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Post by king on May 8, 2006 20:39:58 GMT 8
hi jon, i'm surprised you didnt put the weight hehe. you should put the karma up front becasue you need better traction up there. personally, i would flip the stem to get a more aggressive angle for climbing, but perhaps you're already used to that angle.
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Post by mountguitars on May 8, 2006 21:01:14 GMT 8
hi jon, i'm surprised you didnt put the weight hehe. you should put the karma up front becasue you need better traction up there. personally, i would flip the stem to get a more aggressive angle for climbing, but perhaps you're already used to that angle. thanks king. i didn't include the weight becoz most of the parts for this bike came from my other bikes after some upgrades. so some parts are a bit heavy so i didn't bother weighing the darn thing but judging from how the bike feels when i lift it, i think its somewhere around 22 lbs. i'll get a bathroom scale to check. you just opened up my curiosity, hehe. ;D i installed thicker tires at the rear to compensate for bumps since im using a hardtail. but you're correct and most folks who noticed my setup: put them thicker tires upfront for control. and besides, it'll make the rig lighter when you pedal if you do install the thicker tires upfront (becoz of weight savings and lesser area to generate traction) . but i'm just really a weird person, hehe ;D. i'll try to change the setup and see what happens although i've done this before, sometimes its psychological. like the way my other HT/race bike is setup: kenda karma 2.0's at the rear and 1.95 maxxis flyweight upfront. i'll try really hard to change my mindset then, hehe ;D i actually haven't tried climbing up some steep inclines becoz i'm currently testing the bike for any adjustments i'd like to employ. though i've tried it on fire roads and what i've noticed is that i have to stand on some sections becoz of some inclines and on some huge potholes where your speed is zapped. i rarely stand up on my bike but now i'm starting to learn when and why, hehe. and to speed up, you just pedal like crazy, hehehe ;D . i'll try that suggestion of yours as well (about the stem) and see where i go. one thing i can say though about my SS: the reason why i sweat on an SS is way different from a geared bike. its a mixture of loving and hating at the same time, hehe ;D . SS rocks! its not just sweat any more. its something more than that ;D
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Post by king on May 8, 2006 21:07:08 GMT 8
hehe you'll learn to do a lot of stand up climbing on SS.
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Post by 32by18 on May 8, 2006 21:11:21 GMT 8
i think you can shorten the chain by a link or two - just to get more "wrap" around the rear cog.
fatter tires will help too, traction is important going uphill! (as king said)
can you drop the suspension fork's travel to 80mm? if not, try running it a bit stiff if it doesn't have a lockout to prevent bobbing when climbing.
king, when are you converting your GF (gary fisher ha, not girlfriend)...
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Post by king on May 8, 2006 21:13:39 GMT 8
i dont think i will, i like her too much as she is. i'll have to start getting another one on the side hehe
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Post by 32by18 on May 8, 2006 21:20:40 GMT 8
ahhh a number two! hehe will she be made of steel? how about a custom Ave special, with horizontal dropouts? oooh sexy
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Post by OnebyOne on May 8, 2006 21:48:01 GMT 8
Normally your butt starts to bob if your saddle height is a little too high...
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Post by mountguitars on May 8, 2006 21:59:18 GMT 8
can you drop the suspension fork's travel to 80mm? if not, try running it a bit stiff if it doesn't have a lockout to prevent bobbing when climbing. oh yeah. patay ako dito (i'm dead meat). this fork is way too plush and doesn't have a lock out. i'll try adding air and see what happens or else i'll try bringing the fork to an authorized service tech to see if i can shorten the travel. tomorrow is judgement day. i'll see if i can survive the "apat na palapag" here in sta. rosa using my current setup. i'll just do the adjustments and follow all you guys' advices so i can tell the difference. ;D thanks for the tips guys. hope to bike with you soon, folks.
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Post by OnebyOne on May 8, 2006 22:37:44 GMT 8
Good luck brad on your test ride tomorrow
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Post by 32by18 on May 8, 2006 22:43:18 GMT 8
good luck. and remember, don't force it the first time (hmmm...hehe)
play safe and walk if you must, the hills will always be there. conserve momentum - build up speed in the downhill. I'm sure you're familiar with the climbs there. Just anticipate, look for the smoothest lines. Be wary of the powdery sections, especially in the 3rd hillclimb.
also, make small, incremental changes to your ride so you can keep track of what you tweaked. Try to maintain a smooth pedal stroke to minimize bob.
Don't take tire pressure for granted as well - a few psi here and there can make a difference between gripping and slipping.
again, good luck. i'll see if i can ride there this weekend - maybe we can hit those hills.
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Post by cherrybomber on May 9, 2006 6:48:44 GMT 8
nice bike man!
32x18 is right you can still shorten a couple links.
you can push that tensioner up closer to the chain stay.
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Post by wcoastbo on May 9, 2006 7:37:37 GMT 8
I'm a big fan of keeping things simple (that's one of the reasons I like SS), and that particular tensioner design is almost as complex as a rear derailleur. I'm sure it's a nice tensioner, but two pulleys are only necessary if you're going to be using two chainrings and need extra chainlength. That would make a good setup for a 2speed... just add a big ring and make the chainline exactly between the two rings. A quick tap with the heal and the chain drops from the big ring to the middle. Is there a machine shop nearby that can fabricate something similar to the Rennen tensioner? very simple and reliable. www.rennendesigngroup.com/products.html
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Post by mountguitars on May 9, 2006 17:25:29 GMT 8
I'm a big fan of keeping things simple (that's one of the reasons I like SS), and that particular tensioner design is almost as complex as a rear derailleur. I'm sure it's a nice tensioner, but two pulleys are only necessary if you're going to be using two chainrings and need extra chainlength. That would make a good setup for a 2speed... just add a big ring and make the chainline exactly between the two rings. A quick tap with the heal and the chain drops from the big ring to the middle. Is there a machine shop nearby that can fabricate something similar to the Rennen tensioner? very simple and reliable. www.rennendesigngroup.com/products.htmlyeah i'm thinking about using just a single pulley as well. actually that was supposed to be my setup: just a single pulley. i'll do that once i get back to manila over the weekend. i just tried the 2 roller thingy becoz someone told me to (i forgot who he was). he told me that a single pulley easily gets derailed. i'll never know if i dont see for myself. thanks for reinforcing my second thoughts, hehe ;D. question though: is there a way to turn my 2-pulley tensioner into a single pulley or do i have to buy a new one? TIA
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Post by mountguitars on May 9, 2006 17:38:30 GMT 8
by the way, i just got home from work and went up the "4 landings" (apat na palapag) using my SS rig. it was very hot (about 33 degrees under the shade) and not only that, riding a 32x18 on those steep inclines is horrendous. i just couldn't imagine that its possible. but it is. i made it alive, hehe. but i was so exhausted and went back instead of doing my usual quicky ride up to the manggahan trees. i just got to the concrete pavement after the 4 landings and went home, exhausted and wasted. i dont know if it was becoz of the heat or if its becoz of the bike, hehe. but it was sure fun and painful, hehehe. ;D
better put zip ties on them handgrips. suddenly, i'm squeezing them grips real hard so i can lift the handle bars just to push really really hard on them pedals.
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Post by jibber on May 9, 2006 21:55:48 GMT 8
better put zip ties on them handgrips. suddenly, i'm squeezing them grips real hard so i can lift the handle bars just to push really really hard on them pedals. Hey Jon...hope to bump into you this weekend. I usually grip the end of the bars during climbs...imagining there are bar ends on it ;D this way I can control the front better and push on the pedals harder at the same time. Nice bike btw, chain needs to be shortened tho'...
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Post by wcoastbo on May 10, 2006 0:18:29 GMT 8
hey mountguitars, I'd say use the tension as it was designed. trying to modify it may cause you more problems than it's worth. it's not a bad tensioner, just has more parts than is necessary. if you know someone that's building a 2sp commuter, sell it. BTW that's a very nice looking bike you have. those Alite frames are light.
climbing steep hills in the heat with a SS is tough, but you made it congrats! you'll keep getting stronger and recovery time will be faster. come back to that hill after riding SS for a couple months and I bet you'll finish it in a faster time, and after a couple minutes of recovery you'll be ready for the rest of the ride.
are you using your arms and back muscles on steep climbs? as your right leg pushes down on the pedal, stand over the front of the bike and pull up on the bars with your right arm. the technique is a bit similar to dead-lifts and gives you extra power, esp when your legs are already tired. Watch BMXers, they have good technique applying power to the pedals.
note: pushing down on your bars while climbing only compresses your fork and robs your energy.
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Post by 32by18 on May 10, 2006 10:55:19 GMT 8
congrats! let's ride na!
the first time i went up those hills, I was running 32x16, and on the third hill, the bike stalled with its rear wheel in a dip. imagine me pushing down on the pedals for all i was worth, almost screaming, and the bike wouldn't budge! I had to dismount because if I didn;t break a chain, something else would have given out (my knees!)
speaking of breaking chains, always always ALWAYS carry a chain tool a a few extra links! SSers put much higher torque through the drivetrain and chains can snap at the most inooportune moment. It happened to me during an all-out climb. Good thing my knee clipped the handlebar, and not the stem/steerer tube.
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Post by mountguitars on May 10, 2006 16:24:11 GMT 8
jibber, i'd really love to hook up with you guys over the weekend but unfortunately, i'll be spending the weekend being a beach bum somewhere in zambales. hopefully next weekend wre'll get to ride. wcoastbo, so its push on right leg, lift on right arm, same technique for the left. thanks for the tip. 32by18, thanks for the tip. i started carrying a chain tool with me when i got late going to work using my SS becoz of technical issues. i guess the extra links will be handy as well. its actually my first time to ever use a chain tool. i've never brought one with me and haven't even used one until recently but i'm beginning to learn more about my bike and how to fix it. i've never broken a chain due to pedalling. maybe its a facet of biking i haven't gained yet: pedalling hard and even spinning like crazy. this SS bike is really giving me a work out. ;D thanks for all them tips guys. lets go ride.
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Post by OnebyOne on May 10, 2006 19:58:32 GMT 8
Hahaha, now you are starting to get addicted into SS'ing...
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Post by wcoastbo on May 11, 2006 0:44:41 GMT 8
mountguitars - yes, same for the left. look at my avitar, it's similar to the position i'm in during out of saddle climbing on a steep hill. The difference is that my arms aren't bent so much, I'm over the bars a bit more and my back is more upright. I also swing my bike side-to-side a bit.
As my right pedal approaches the 12 o'clock position, the bike leans right and my right elbow is almost fully extended. On the downward pedal stroke I put my weight into the pedal, not much power will be generated until I pull on the handlebar with my right arm and bend the elbow. At this point I also straighten my back. It's an explosion of power from your legs, arms and back all at the same time. This push/pull combination is where power is generated.
Your right pedal is now near the 6 o'clock position and your bike is now leaning to the left... the same explosion of power occurs on the left side. If I need to clear a short steep section I go all out and pedal fast. This is anerobic and I don't last long. On a long grinding climb I go slow and it becomes more aerobic. (use slow deep breaths to get oxygen deep into your lungs)
Weight lifting (dead lifts) and rowing use this same technique, but uses both arms and legs at the same time.
If only I had a video camera. Practice this on a super steep road.
Note: this won't work well in small ring, because the gearing is so low that you will over-torque and spin the rear wheel.
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Post by mountguitars on May 11, 2006 16:45:52 GMT 8
mountguitars - yes, same for the left. look at my avitar, it's similar to the position i'm in during out of saddle climbing on a steep hill. The difference is that my arms aren't bent so much, I'm over the bars a bit more and my back is more upright. I also swing my bike side-to-side a bit. As my right pedal approaches the 12 o'clock position, the bike leans right and my right elbow is almost fully extended. On the downward pedal stroke I put my weight into the pedal, not much power will be generated until I pull on the handlebar with my right arm and bend the elbow. At this point I also straighten my back. It's an explosion of power from your legs, arms and back all at the same time. This push/pull combination is where power is generated. Your right pedal is now near the 6 o'clock position and your bike is now leaning to the left... the same explosion of power occurs on the left side. If I need to clear a short steep section I go all out and pedal fast. This is anerobic and I don't last long. On a long grinding climb I go slow and it becomes more aerobic. (use slow deep breaths to get oxygen deep into your lungs) Weight lifting (dead lifts) and rowing use this same technique, but uses both arms and legs at the same time. If only I had a video camera. Practice this on a super steep road. Note: this won't work well in small ring, because the gearing is so low that you will over-torque and spin the rear wheel. wcBo, thanks for the detailed tip. really need to hook up with you guys. dunno if im doing it correctly. but i do (unconsciously) the right-right, left-left technique. and i also need to overcome exhaustion. its really different if you're riding a SS rig. although i do ride it everyday since being built a almost 2 weeks ago, the challenge is really something i can't get over my head. i remember mcvarki doing 14 laps at the la mesa 24hrs (6.5 KM per lap), i just can't imagine how someone on a SS could have the endurance and mindset to go on. really inspiring. by the way, did the necessary changes on the rig. reduced the chain by 2 links and changed both tires to 1.95 and even inverted the stem. a better and faster rig indeed. i noticed that the shorter the chain, the better the transmission of power even if i just removed 2 links. let me do the same on my other bikes, hehehe ;D
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Post by maxbuwaya on May 13, 2006 13:32:09 GMT 8
i used a single pulley 1 month later the spring inside gave.
It sucks coz it cost P600 bucks.
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Post by mountguitars on May 17, 2006 22:05:29 GMT 8
went up the "4 palapags" with using the setup revision and it was great. thanks to the all weather, bike friendly conditions at sta rosa. after the ride though, i reverted to the original configuration of my stem, 10 degree rise. coz i forgot to do them j-hops. a lot of things i can say with an SS setup: -light -fuss free -sexy -sexy light ;D -jump friendly -more love for 2 wheels -staring more on your bike gets more na, frequent pa, hehe. ;D its just so addicting. i dont know why. punishment at its best. ;D
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Post by 32by18 on May 17, 2006 23:35:45 GMT 8
hehehe welcome to the club
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Post by g.b.b on May 18, 2006 0:59:35 GMT 8
this is just an experiment dont react violently......... just put your inputs...... this setup is heavy for SS coz im repainting my HT that's why i tried using my FS for SS setup.
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Post by eiwol on May 18, 2006 1:52:51 GMT 8
this is just an experiment dont react violently......... just put your inputs...... this setup is heavy for SS coz im repainting my HT that's why i tried using my FS for SS setup. ;D ;D ;D i wonder what the effect of the rear suspension be on your chain even if you have tensioners?
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Post by g.b.b on May 18, 2006 2:21:40 GMT 8
;D ;D ;D i wonder what the effect of the rear suspension be on your chain even if you have tensioners? that's what i observed 1st before installing the whole SS components. it still plays and feels the same as my previous setup, which has an RD.
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Post by cobym on May 18, 2006 7:12:28 GMT 8
this is just an experiment dont react violently......... just put your inputs...... this setup is heavy for SS coz im repainting my HT that's why i tried using my FS for SS setup. Its a great setup, IMHO. A badass SS.
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Post by mountguitars on May 18, 2006 19:04:43 GMT 8
guys,
i have a dumb question. is there such a thing as "over pedalling"? is it bad? will it hurt my knees or anything? coz if i need to speed up, i simply pedal like crazy. is this bad for my health? TIA.
also, will riding an SS improve my skills riding a geared XC bike? in what aspect? thanks.
i can hardly feel any difference kasi eh. been riding an SS for just a couple of weeks. just wondering what'll happen.
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