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Post by psyblade30 on Sept 25, 2007 17:18:32 GMT 8
WHICH IS BETTER, SINGLE PIVOT OR MULTI LINK SYSTEM? What can you say bros?
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Post by extendead on Sept 25, 2007 17:24:27 GMT 8
multi link system... its more closer to a parallel axle path
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Post by REDNEB on Sept 25, 2007 18:06:38 GMT 8
Single-pivot....... why? cuz when single pivots explode on crashes only the top tube and the seatpost have the chance to impale you with broken tubes! as compared to multi-links when they explode... top tube, seat tube, then linkages will become projectiles and the possibility of the multi link rear end tubes/pieces puncturing you like a pin cushion!
**ive destroyed a lot of frames in my life and so has everyone who has been here since the 90s, they say its indestructible huh? i say its still aluminum! thats all!
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Post by Patrick on Sept 25, 2007 18:20:43 GMT 8
Single-pivot....... why? cuz when single pivots explode on crashes only the top tube and the seatpost have the chance to impale you with broken tubes! as compared to multi-links when they explode... top tube, seat tube, then linkages will become projectiles and the possibility of the multi link rear end tubes/pieces puncturing you like a pin cushion! **ive destroyed a lot of frames in my life and so has everyone who has been here since the 90s, they say its indestructible huh? i say its still aluminum! thats all! I don't think brake jacks are an issue with you hehe, you discovered a free solution ...don use them brakes ;D
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Post by anshwa on Sept 25, 2007 22:29:18 GMT 8
Multi-link.
Performance. There is virtually no brake jack and the rear wheel stays grounded better than a single pivot. You could, however, minimize brake jack w/ single pivots by using a floating disk brake system. Single pivots can only pedal well using platform shocks. Multi-link systems can pedal better than single pivots even with a non-platform shock - case in point, DW-link & Horst link. I'm not denying though that all systems today use platform shocks.
Durability. With multi-link systems, there are several pairs of bearings working together & sharing the stress of hits. Single pivots only have one set of bearings taking all the hits.
Maintenance. This is probably where single pivots should shine because you practically only need to maintain one pivot. Multi-link systems need several pivots to maintain. Then again, you have several pivots sharing a load versus just one on a single pivot? Also, with the advent of needle bearings, maintenance issues change.
Simplicity. Single pivot hands down.
Aesthetics. Now it depends on the rider. I have to say I like the look of single pivots better than multi-links - and I own a DW-link bike!
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Post by >rocketman> on Sept 25, 2007 23:16:10 GMT 8
DW link nice!
there's on going project they would use it on motorcycles
that how good the linkage is. hheehhehhehe
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Post by REDNEB on Sept 25, 2007 23:22:39 GMT 8
sa XRM? heheehhe.......... or wave?
...brake jack is a myth created by the mtb industry to sell their multi-link bikes.... umm are you gonna shred that fast to feel the effect of brake jacking?.... and if u get brake jacks often it means you use them brakes too much... just let go dont be afraid ;D hmmmm..... the Curnutt XTD n ITD suspension technology can compensate upto 60% of brake jacking even with out the floating disc system.... ;D
... Mono-links RULE! hehe ;D
ahihihi..... hey rocketman bring your power tools tom we need to destroy my foes DHS hehehe.... it sucks...
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Post by anshwa on Sept 26, 2007 1:04:51 GMT 8
...brake jack is a myth created by the mtb industry to sell their multi-link bikes.... umm are you gonna shred that fast to feel the effect of brake jacking?.... and if u get brake jacks often it means you use them brakes too much... just let go dont be afraid ;D hmmmm..... the Curnutt XTD n ITD suspension technology can compensate upto 60% of brake jacking even with out the floating disc system.... ;D Buddy, for once I'd disagree with you. Brake jack is not a myth. It's almost the same as saying a 66RC is no different from a Drop Off fork. It's when you use the better one that you find out it is better. Only with brake jack, it is there. On really extended rock gardens, you're bound to scrub speed using your brakes & this is where brake jack becomes a problem - also with too much speed on turning (nobody's perfect). Your rear suspension stiffens & so your back end doesn't track well & is flopping all over the place. Not to say you won't be able to clear the section but a multi-link will track through it way better. As for the Foes bikes, their site shows all their long travel frames/bikes with floating disk brake systems. This is because brake jack is for real. The suspension is not the problem, it's the fact that there is only one pivot. That is why they patented the Horst link because it found a way to get around how the wheel's stopping affects the action of the rear end. Peace tayo.
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Post by >rocketman> on Sept 26, 2007 7:00:48 GMT 8
If you are really good and fast and world class rider You don't need floating disc brake, sirs
With the advent of platform shock started by the guy and pip element, followed by pakx u DHX
Single pivots shine and can out perfrom multi link multi cab
even without floating disk breaks contraption single pivot can be seen in world cup podiums
Check out steve peat's and brendan fairclough's when they used to ride for Orange england
No Floating disc breaks,
Check out Team G-cross Honda Rn01, Greg minaar, mati lehikoinenen single pivot with gear box
No floating disc break,
save weight on their race bike.
Kona's Fabian barel's race bike has floating disc break, why
Kona is using the " FAUX 4 bar" linkage, which is also a single pivot in actual
the wheel/hub is on the swing arm and connected to front traingle as the main pivot.
the wheel path travel's in arc going forward the main pivot as the center.
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Post by puregutz on Sept 26, 2007 8:52:31 GMT 8
WHICH IS BETTER, SINGLE PIVOT OR MULTI LINK SYSTEM? What can you say bros? I say they're equally capable designs. The better rider will win it. ;D
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Post by anshwa on Sept 26, 2007 9:22:13 GMT 8
Let's try this: You have 2 Sam Hills. One on a single pivot & the other on a multi-link. Who's gonna win?
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ony
Free Rider
Posts: 207
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Post by ony on Sept 26, 2007 10:08:34 GMT 8
when yamaha 1st introduced theire mono shock in the late 70s it was a single pivot design. nowadays m-cycle manufacturers with mono shocks are using linkages & is widely used on their off road machines.
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Post by glockbiker on Sept 26, 2007 10:35:46 GMT 8
When DH came along, many DH rigs were merely souped up versions of XC rigs. It easily became apparent that in DH, the name of the game was SUSPENSION TRAVEL- lots of it.
Design engineers generally like multi-pivot designs because it allows them to manipulate more factors- ex) length of the shock, length of the rocker arms, pivot locations, etc. to squeeze out the most travel from an intended design and to counter other effects like brake jack, pogoing, etc.
For single pivot designs, the main problem is how to get the widest arc possible from the swingarm. Its main advantage is simplicity and (if the pivot & swingarm are beefy enough) durability.
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Post by REDNEB on Sept 26, 2007 15:02:01 GMT 8
Design engineers generally like multi-pivot designs because it allows them to manipulate more factors- ex) length of the shock, length of the rocker arms, pivot locations, etc. to squeeze out the most travel from an intended design and to counter other effects like brake jack, pogoing, etc. ..... they were creating possible markets for their designs and products. How do you make more money through selling? you diverisfy! you add more products to your line-up thus creating a larger network due to the varieties of products they can avail from you. And during this era all of the MTB cottage industries wanted a piece ......... then came the 80s anshwa... peace tayo! hehehe... rocketman sucks! hehehe @glock.... XC bikes were mere HT when the mtb industry started, DH bikes wer not comercially available yet they were manufacturer exclusive production bikes way back then, .. in no way did DH bikes originate from FS XC bikes.... hehehe.... ill bet my ring finger on that. hehehe FS technology in XC mtbikes came in circa 1986... and the Mtb world was still unconvinced that FS tech was really for XC bikes... Fisher n Ritchie cycles were the first to introduce full Commercial DH frames way way even before that. these ppl started the MTB DH movement in 78' i was born n i grew up in nor-cal, sacramento i know what my neighbors were doing back then, the evolution of Suspension engineering was the result of the World cup demands as the sport evolved and progressed. heheheheheeh...........
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Post by REDNEB on Sept 26, 2007 15:04:58 GMT 8
@ anshwa Let's try this: You have 2 Sam Hills. One on a single pivot & the other on a multi-link. Who's gonna win?
ummmm........... Sam Hill? .... hahaha theres 2 of em but both sam hills so either one wins.. its still sam hill...............OMFG.... nose bleed... soweeeeeeeeeeeee...hihihihihihhi..... mwah
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Post by extendead on Sept 27, 2007 0:03:08 GMT 8
lets say..
sam hill 1 - orange bike
sam hill 2 - santa cruz v10
sam hill 3 - iron horse sunday
sam hill 4 - extension frame
peng - khs hardtail
hmmm.... i will win!!!!
cause its a crispy pata eating contest... hehehehe...
ah,, anshwa... paabot calsibloc... high blood eh
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Post by anshwa on Sept 27, 2007 0:18:00 GMT 8
Ahahaha! Pucha, if it's crispy pata eating contest, I'd win!!! hahahaha!
Oh... Here's your calsibloc... hahaha
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Post by REDNEB on Sept 27, 2007 0:52:21 GMT 8
........ hehehe 5mins just let it melt under your tongue...hehehe... neu-bloc akin eh! heheheh
..... beep..beep... hehehe wow 110/170 .... lol ......Crispy Pata world cup? my money is on Peng ... If SUGPO! im on rocketman! hehehe
......... both designs have their own pros n cons , yer right guys... it all depends on the sam hill thats riding the bike. ...... Psyblade has engineered a mono-multi hybrid linkage which actually defies a few basic laws in physics... and its a "REAL-WORKING" suspension system.
.......... i smell Cottage industry bike manufacturing, we could buy-off the old front triangles of the SCOTT OCTANES' of the RP team, cuz i hear the rear linkages collapse and crumble like chips ahoy in cebu...... hehe.. then we fab the mono rear arm and multi link system hehehe. Integrate it, create billets, HD bearings, then give the geometry a 3 way adjustable travel option, respectively: 6-7-8" of variable travel.... box in the rear drop out for a 135mm hub.
.......... then powder coat paint finish ... and finally give it some name like "ROACH COACH DH"..hehehe kinda catchy hahahaha..... then top coat the distribute.... heheheheh
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ony
Free Rider
Posts: 207
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Post by ony on Sept 27, 2007 8:12:00 GMT 8
i remember the trusty spez rig of bender in the late 90's
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Post by REDNEB on Sept 27, 2007 9:48:51 GMT 8
awww..... heheh ony that broke in 3 places... i went home walking.... that was a sad NU107 concert.... ahihihihi... it looked so mean and indestructible but yet it wasnt.....lol
.....only a diamond is forever talaga........ or until you pawn it........ lol
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ony
Free Rider
Posts: 207
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Post by ony on Sept 27, 2007 10:11:32 GMT 8
oh my golay
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Post by troylee on Sept 27, 2007 11:51:05 GMT 8
single pivot rule!!!!!!!!
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Pao
All-Mountain Rider
-Hahaha... Mukhatanga...-
Posts: 198
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Post by Pao on Sept 27, 2007 12:07:12 GMT 8
For me? Single pivots. Why? Old technology = Many improvements. Engineering 101... Improve until perfected! ;D
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Post by <eVs10nacious< on Sept 27, 2007 13:27:26 GMT 8
used to be a single pivot rider........ but now, multilink rider......it suits my riding style well
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Post by extendead on Sept 27, 2007 14:41:14 GMT 8
hmmmm..... ony are you pasaway before?? or with trixx??
single pivot?? multilink??? lets have a myth buster ride for it!!!
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ony
Free Rider
Posts: 207
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Post by ony on Sept 28, 2007 6:14:19 GMT 8
extendead= mixture of pasaway & trixx (good teams good friends)
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apol
All-Mountain Rider
Oldschool baby!!!!
Posts: 186
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Post by apol on Sept 28, 2007 7:17:11 GMT 8
Crispy pata!!!!! soy sauce and vinegar with onions garlic and SILING LABUYO!!!! ahh mis ko na pinas!!!! heheheh I will be watching what will happen to the myth buster episode.....singol pipot vs multinational link heheheheh
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Post by >rocketman> on Sept 28, 2007 8:44:19 GMT 8
which is Better, "FOR CLIMBING" Single pivot or multi link answer: Multilink, which is correct? if not for downhill you're still riding hardtail today or it is the other way around. XC techology to downhill. Lets's wait when sam hill finishes his contract with IH, 1 more year with IH if he changes his ride Sc v10, M6 etc, let's see if he still wins, your guess is good as mine He will still be dominant/unstoppable in the next 10 years. only an injury can stop any good rider, but he is wiser/smarter now.
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Post by glockbiker on Sept 28, 2007 9:41:31 GMT 8
REDNEBI should have said "when the BOOM in DH came along in the 90s". Mea culpa there. This was the time when the DH was already an established MTB discipline sponsored by the big boys like Cannondale, GT, etc. I didn't say DH rigs evolved from FS XC rigs. What I meant was that for many companies with proven or popular FS XC designs at that time, it was more expedient to just adapt ot modify them. Indeed, if you look at the Super-V Active DH rigs that the Cannondale team (Alyson Sydor, etc.) rode in 97 , they were really Super Vs with inverted, triple clamp Moto forks and Coda disc brakes. Except for an extra top tube and two struts, the frame was basically the same. One would wonder how a big company like Cannondale (with all its technological and financial muscle) would just use something based on its Super V. If FS DH rigs had been around since the 80s, surely its DH rig designs would have been radically different from the Super V since it would have taken a different and independent evolutionary route. But maybe it was just a business decision to use whatever design was available then. Nicolas Vouilloz won the men's 1997 World Championship in Cairns, Australia for GT in a nothing more than a souped-up GT LTS. It didn't even have a triple clamp fork. Some privateers then were racing on Rocky Mtn San Andreas rigs with triple clamp forks. But were there new, different designs at that time? Oh yes. For one, the Schwinn/Yeti/Lawwill Straight Six was pretty cool back then. On the design engineeering part, I was just saying it from a purely engineering point of view. After the management people decide what new MTB niche to invade and the World Cup brats give their design inputs, the engineers WILL go back to the drawing board to tinker with shock lengths, rocker arms, pivots, etc. About your neighbors. Were they also raising tall plants that could be rolled into thin cigarettes? Jokes lang! I got that line from MAD Magazine's spoof of the 80s. Ha-ha. Have a good day!
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Post by coilerblue on Sept 28, 2007 14:50:10 GMT 8
i dunno about that im was still young to pedal that time...80s and 90s cool... heheheh ;D ;D ;D
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