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Post by icecold on Sept 5, 2007 9:44:36 GMT 8
I hope I don't offend any roadies or anybody for that matter but I'm just curious about something. Actually, I've experienced this a lot of times... to many times to ignore. Many of this happened to me whenever I'm on my way to meet the PinoyMTBiker group for a ride.
I have observed that whenever I passed or rather overtook a roadie, that roadie will automatically tail me for quite a distance and then turn away to whichever direction he is heading or simply overtake me. I'm usually just doing about 18-22kph, and most of the time, I'm just trying to be at the venue at the designated time. I'm not really out there trying to beat a roadie in a speed game. But I have to admit that these roadies seems to give me the feeling that it's a taboo for a mountainbiker to overtake them. Tailing me as if there are out trying to prove something. So the questions are, is it really that bad if roadies got overtaken by mtbs? How do you (roadies) feel if an mtb does overtake you? Just trying to find an answer to this curiosity.
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Post by marcs on Sept 5, 2007 9:56:49 GMT 8
this is coz of LaMok. Never misses a chance to race with a roadie . . . hehehehe
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Post by kulot_salot on Sept 5, 2007 10:06:44 GMT 8
hahaha!!! ;D my XTC is better than your Colnago! hehehehe ;D
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Post by flipnidaho on Sept 5, 2007 10:11:22 GMT 8
most roadies (not all) don't like to be passed by mountain bikers and will absolutely put themselves to the limit to try to not get dropped by a mtnbiker... it's like a competition thing or something...
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Post by anthrax76 on Sept 5, 2007 10:15:10 GMT 8
ha ha ha, brad, have you heard of drafting? on occassion i also overtake roadies, but it's not to challenge them, but because either i need to be somewhere fast or they're really slow, maybe on a cool down ride. there are also times when i tail a roadie. i'm used to pack riding and at 25 kmh with a headwind, nothing beats drafting, ha ha ha ha. definitely saves your strength
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Post by Ben Dover on Sept 5, 2007 10:25:12 GMT 8
marcs, yep, i must admit but i have to make it clear that i never initiated any of it...but i dont do that anymore...i dont care anymore..its not about the 40 magic number hehe! its that sometimes it could turn really dangerous not only for yourself but to the other rider as well.
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Post by fattire on Sept 5, 2007 10:57:58 GMT 8
icecold, here's what you can do:
-if your legs are telling you that you can overtake any other rider, feel free to do so, but do it in a way that will not startle the rider upfront
-by the time you are side by side with the rider, take the initiative to greet him. a half sec cock of the head worn with a smile will do the trick, you can also say good morning/afternoon, of course
-now that you are sitting up front, he may still overtake you but he may reciprocate the greeting you did in which case you may not feel too bad about since the icebreaker's been put to effect already
-now if he overtakes you in a startling manner even if you have greeted him already which is really really downright annoying, i suggest that you be the rider with the mental capacity to understand: rude *ss, fred brained riders exist everywhere where two wheels and a crank are present.
as a personal rider tip when you overtake, do it in a way that you're like cruising to get in front of another rider. i personally do not jump or spring ahead, as i don't like to be startled like that.
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driver
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Post by driver on Sept 5, 2007 11:10:30 GMT 8
you overtake a roadie he will also overtakes you (not particularly mtb) ...roadies term for that is "sinuklian or sumukli"...actually those instinct are from roadies who races...thats the way it is...nothing personal. and after passing you he will give you "the look".. well at least thats me.(it happens to me in either situation).. ayos lang...for always there will be greater and lesser person than yourself. peace.. ride hard!!
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Post by kulot_salot on Sept 5, 2007 11:12:41 GMT 8
you overtake a roadie he will also overtakes you (not particularly mtb) ...roadies term for that is "sinuklian or sumukli"...actually those instinct are from roadies who races...thats the way it is...nothing personal. and after passing you he will give you "the look".. well at least thats me.(it happens to me in either situation).. ayos lang...for always there will be greater and lesser person than yourself. peace.. ride hard!! driver/rommel, roadie heart you na! ;D
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driver
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Post by driver on Sept 5, 2007 11:14:42 GMT 8
you overtake a roadie he will also overtakes you (not particularly mtb) ...roadies term for that is "sinuklian or sumukli"...actually those instinct are from roadies who races...thats the way it is...nothing personal. and after passing you he will give you "the look".. well at least thats me.(it happens to me in either situation).. ayos lang...for always there will be greater and lesser person than yourself. peace.. ride hard!! driver/rommel, roadie heart you na! ;D i must admit.. yes it is ...but PinoyMTBiker is still part of me...i love my friends here except goku! ;D
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donfacundo
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Post by donfacundo on Sept 5, 2007 11:34:14 GMT 8
i also have some bad experiences with some roadies back home... (not all coz i have so many roadie friends also), whenever we go biking on pavements and they are on the opposite side, they wont bother to give a hand- raised (taas ng kamay) to greet mtb'ers and the vice versa.. why is it so? is there inferiority on both sides?... just a thought
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Post by radical1962 on Sept 5, 2007 12:14:07 GMT 8
Actually this is the same experience I have. It is actually strenghtened when I got my own road bike and started riding with roadies at QC circle every sunday. They don't like to be overtaken and they love the suklian game. It's an entirely different culture that they have complete with sign language and heirarchy of relationships. It is confusing at times and becomes scary at others. They can be quite intolerant of newbies especially within a fast moving peleton. I understand this because of the danger of a crash caused by a careless newbie. I have also become wary of newbies when biking in the peleton, I tend to look for the tell-tale signs of a newbie (malikot, cannot hold his line and no spin technique) and give them a good distance. Oh my ... I starting to become one of them!
It does take getting used to since I am a mountainbiker at heart. I am not used to the silent treatment and competitive air that is with roadies. It is always strategy and speed and maintaining order within the peleton. It's not as fun as our rides with all the kwentohan and kantsawan. They only seem to talk for orders in the ride ... to keep up the pace and stay in line.
This is also the reason that I would rather ride my road alone or with a group of ex-MTbikers like Andie, Rommel, Arman, Allan, Aman et al. They are more accomodating and fun.
We mountainbikers should also be understanding of their particular situation. They are on fast, light and not-so=maneuverable bikes. They usually maintain a speed of 30km/hr as cruising and have a pedal cadence of 90rpm with an average HR of 160bpm. It takes concentration and focus to do that. On the other hand, we have a more leisurely pace of 20km/hr as cruising and a pedal cadence of 70rpm and HR of 145bpm ... we are so relaxed and our bikes are more stable.
Just my 2 cents.
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Post by marcs on Sept 5, 2007 12:28:36 GMT 8
net, it seems they're just too serious a bunch, with the only "fun factor" beinng ahead of everyone else. coz that's the only thing that can be measured for them I guess. While for MTBers, it's more of enjoying the trail, the scenery, the company.
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Post by Ben Dover on Sept 5, 2007 13:15:53 GMT 8
aha!! its getting clearer to me now...go ahead then, let's make their lives exciting, fun and happy!
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Post by radical1962 on Sept 5, 2007 13:24:02 GMT 8
net, it seems they're just too serious a bunch, with the only "fun factor" beinng ahead of everyone else. coz that's the only thing that can be measured for them I guess. While for MTBers, it's more of enjoying the trail, the scenery, the company. I guess you have a point there. They seem to focus on the speed and being ahead while we have so many diversions. We can climb steep trails and downhill scary terrains. We can jump, drop, carve, flow, spin and even push and carry our bikes just to get to wherever we want to get to. Hey! We don't even need roads or good weather, the messier it is the more fun we have ... just like kids! Hey life is just too short ... Lito, is right, we should give them an opportunity to have fun. I actually had fun pacing with the roadies last Sunday on my NRS. I decided to take it instead of the road bike since it was drizzling a bit and I felt safer on my MTbike during those road conditions. They just kept looking and waiting for me to fall out of the pace. Hey, why give them the chance?! I just kept up until they gave up. Now, that was fun! It really gave me a good workout keeping up with them.
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Post by kulot_salot on Sept 5, 2007 14:40:56 GMT 8
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Post by icecold on Sept 5, 2007 16:37:06 GMT 8
Actually 9 out of 10 times that happens, it was driver.
... hehehe, just kidding Rommel. Honestly, I can't even overtake Rommel even if he is on an mtb.
Anyway, to tell you the truth, the only roadies I can overtake are those who are really going slow. I mean I'm doing 20kph, so that means they are really asking to be overtaken. I can understand the competitive culture but heck at my speed they still want a competition. ;D Culture nga talaga (It's really about the culture). Sometimes when they are tailing me, it's like they have assumed that I was the windbreaker, sort of to cut down the air drag, you know the aerodynamic stuff. When they do that, I had to fight off the urge to suddenly stop in front of them but I guess I'd be on the shorter end of the stick if they do crashed into me. ;D ;D ;D
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driver
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Post by driver on Sept 6, 2007 1:25:17 GMT 8
Actually 9 out of 10 times that happens, it was driver. .. Sometimes when they are tailing me, it's like they have assumed that I was the windbreaker, sort of to cut down the air drag, you know the aerodynamic stuff. When they do that, I had to fight off the urge to suddenly stop in front of them but I guess I'd be on the shorter end of the stick if they do crashed into me. ;D ;D ;D icecold...when they do tail you...laspag lang yun ginagawa kang pahingahan..they are resting at your back and once recovered he will attack you... technique for that when somebody tails you...slow your speed down (wag mo sabayan) para pahinga ka rin...once he attack follow his back wheel and its time for you to make draft and when you sense that he's tired...suklian mo sya (ATTACK him)... heres the time you feel the pain and you have to tolerate it. then give him "the look"...or simply look at him coz his in pain too. hehehe.
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Post by wcoastbo on Sept 6, 2007 1:55:04 GMT 8
listen to fattire, he knows cycling etiquette.
I enjoy riding both mtb and road, there are different styles between the two and each may not always understand the other. first of all there shouldn't be an "us vs them" attitude, after all there are more similarities than differences.
when you pass another rider you're telling them you feel strong. a roadie may take this as a signal that you're willing to lead the pace. if you're not willing to pace another rider, give a hand signal that you're slowing down and move to the right a bit. also, once you are in front of another rider you have the responsibility to indicate your movements. any vehicle or rider on the road should do this. vehicles have brake lights and turn signals, we as cyclists have hand signals. in many municipalities hand signals are legally required when on the road, in addition doing so shows responsibility/courtesy and could save your life.
when i'm in a fast paceline my front tire is 6-12 inches away from the tire in front of me. this requires my full concentration so that I don't crash or cause the person behind me to crash. there is very little margin for error and if another cyclist waves a hello, I may not see them or have the time to acknowledge them back. Please do not take this personally as I'm normally very friendly on the roads. Many times conversation is best when we've stopped. when i'm on my roadbike and the road is bumpy, I don't like to take my hand of the bars. I'll usually do the, two finger pointed at a 45 degree angle hello, with my left hand with my hand still on the bars.
personally I don't like to draft behind a person riding an mtb unless I know him or her. I know most mtbers don't know road etiquette and may not warn me of road debris, potholes or their intention to suddenly brake or turn. most roadies don't mind if you use their draft, especially if they just passed you. Like Owen mentioned, if you come from behind do ask for permission before pacing, they may not know you've back there and won't give hand signals. It's also bad form to sit on another rider's back wheel without taking your turn at the front. many times that is the reason a roadie will pass you by and take the lead.
Many roadies have gotten to the point that these moves become automatic with very little need for formalities and acknowledgment to others in a paceline, nothing personal just efficient. for those of you who have never ridden in a fast paceline or peloton, try it. you'll be amazed at how fast you can ride for an extended amount of time with very little effort. just make sure to get advice from seasoned cyclists.
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Post by glockbiker on Sept 6, 2007 17:12:03 GMT 8
If there's one thing a roadie hates, it's being outraced by a bloke on an MTB.
I once raced a roadie from the top of Bugarin down to Mabitac using an FS bike. He first overtook me and once ahead, looked at back at me as if to say, "Alis dyan!"
Piqued, I waited until he was unaware and pedalled all out to overtake him. I was able to pile up the distance in the bends.
I carved the bends faster than him by really leaning the bike and doing wide, fast curves that sometimes ate up the road's dirt shoulder. On the other hand, he always had to stay on the asphalt with his skinny 700c tires.
He also had trouble with the gusts of wind. I did not because my 26-inch wide riser bar gave me superior leverage than his narrow drop bars.
He finally caught up with me in the flat stretch between Mabitac and Famy. As he passed by, he gave me a fierce, steely look.
Man, if only looks can kill, ha-ha!
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Post by flipnidaho on Sept 6, 2007 19:23:25 GMT 8
what a lot of roadies hate even more is being passed on the road climbs by a mtnbiker on 2.35 tires, 5" of suspension and singlespeeding it... If there's one thing a roadie hates, it's being outraced by a bloke on an MTB. I once raced a roadie from the top of Bugarin down to Mabitac using an FS bike. He first overtook me and once ahead, looked at back at me as if to say, "Alis dyan!" Piqued, I waited until he was unaware and pedalled all out to overtake him. I was able to pile up the distance in the bends. I carved the bends faster than him by really leaning the bike and doing wide, fast curves that sometimes ate up the road's dirt shoulder. On the other hand, he always had to stay on the asphalt with his skinny 700c tires. He also had trouble with the gusts of wind. I did not because my 26-inch wide riser bar gave me superior leverage than his narrow drop bars. He finally caught up with me in the flat stretch between Mabitac and Famy. As he passed by, he gave me a fierce, steely look. Man, if only looks can kill, ha-ha!
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ungas
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Post by ungas on Sept 7, 2007 1:57:56 GMT 8
am a roadie too and what i hate most are riders who pass me but cant keep up the pace. the annoying part is when you have to watch out for cars to overtake him. it just kills the rythm. if you're going to pass somebody, be it a roadie or a dirtie, make sure you can totally drop him. try to be a roadie too if you have the chance to know how it works. newbie roadies are so annoying, so different from a newbie mtbiker.
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Post by fattire on Sept 7, 2007 11:33:23 GMT 8
mato, kinda offtopic, what's swiss road riding like? and yes, kill us with envy all you like
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Post by BrusKO on Sept 7, 2007 17:20:24 GMT 8
Haters?
Among all of the answers here, Owen gave the best, IMO. He may not have answered it point blank, but he showed how we should behave towards our fellow bikers. Let's not judge roadies saying that all they have in mind is speed, yada yada yada... I'm sure most roadies aren't as hollow as you think. And if you encounter a snooty roadie, rest assured, there will always be a mountain biker to equalize the number.
Further, I think it's a bit harsh to say that roadies have nothing else in mind but to be in the lead, and to say that with MTbikers "it's more of enjoying the trail, the scenery, the company," is short of saying that roadies don't have friends, and could be compared to a horse. I think this is a baseless sweeping generalization.
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Post by Jan Atienza on Sept 7, 2007 19:53:25 GMT 8
You're right BrusKO. Me I just don't mind at all, I can't overtake them anyway... driver...this is funny, I received a modified Armstrong "look" on the climb to Bugarin (on my MTB). Was drafting a roadie's wheel, not because of the slipstream...his spin was just so perfect for me I had to get close and imitate his cadence. Anyway, he slowed down beside me took out his cellphone, dialled a number, and then while talking on the phone...gave me the "look", and sped away. The whole time I was thinking, "may kausap kaya siya talaga?" = )
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Post by flipnidaho on Sept 7, 2007 20:55:23 GMT 8
maybe he thought you were "Jan" Ulrich...
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Post by knobbyist on Sept 7, 2007 23:18:42 GMT 8
i used to feel the same way before. here in paranaque, we do our weekday rides in manila memorial park and it used to be dominated by roadies back when i was a newbie. it always irritated me whenever im riding and they would come from behind shouting "bike, bike". as if i wasn't riding a bike. but when i matured in my riding i realized why they needed to do such a thing. their bike is really designed for speed and not as maneuverable as our mtbs. momentum is really important for them because of their gears and their riding position oftentimes hinders them from waving back at us but surely this doesn't mean their snobs or mayabang. i know some roadies and even joined in their kwentuhan after the memo spin and i can say that they really are just like us. just remember, that even though they have a different discipline from us they are our fellow cyclist and share our passion for riding. ride na lang tayo... hehehe!
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Post by Ben Dover on Sept 7, 2007 23:22:50 GMT 8
mountainbikers, roadies a lot have the same heads only different bikes...but what is friendship got to do with always trying to get ahead? hey bruce! you and i still have some friends right? bwahahaha! ;D ok lets be realistic here...rules are not applicable all the time...try riding up antipolo in the morning during weekends and try to say hi and hello to all bikers you pass by...dang! that my friends will exhaust you more than pedalling itself. peace to everyone.
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Post by byteblues on Sept 9, 2007 18:30:44 GMT 8
im a roadie. sometimes i overtake mtbikers. not for sport but because of their different pace. well it really depends on the speed. you have to maintain a certain rhythm. i can give a simple gesture after i overtake but most of the times a simple overtake will do. cant blame me. i really dont know them. i think they will understand. the case is very different if i see friends or PMTBikers on the road. there are also times when some mtbikers would race with me... no problem we can accomodate a good manageable pace..im no pro racer...but i love challenges....sometimes i attack n crack them...sometimes they get the last laugh.... in fact i met some of my cycling friends during an impromptu road head-to-head races or simple pacemaking....i guess it is more what's inside of you rather what you're riding coz even if i have a slick mtb i would still maintain my pace, ride fun rides, climb socially, attack, pace, wait for someone, overtake or be overtaken with the some old down-to-earth attitude. aim high but shoot low....
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Post by radical1962 on Sept 9, 2007 19:14:28 GMT 8
im a roadie. sometimes i overtake mtbikers. not for sport but because of their different pace. well it really depends on the speed. you have to maintain a certain rhythm. i can give a simple gesture after i overtake but most of the times a simple overtake will do. cant blame me. i really dont know them. i think they will understand. the case is very different if i see friends or PMTBikers on the road. there are also times when some mtbikers would race with me... no problem we can accomodate a good manageable pace..im no pro racer...but i love challenges....sometimes i attack n crack them...sometimes they get the last laugh.... in fact i met some of my cycling friends during an impromptu road head-to-head races or simple pacemaking....i guess it is more what's inside of you rather what you're riding coz even if i have a slick mtb i would still maintain my pace, ride fun rides, climb socially, attack, pace, wait for someone, overtake or be overtaken with the some old down-to-earth attitude. aim high but shoot low.... Hey Andie, I really enjoy riding with you. You are very accomodating and patient especially during our Caliraya ride when we were pacing each other with me riding my NRS. Again, you were very helpful in my first long ride on my Roadbike during the last Sierra Madre ride. I know that you can definitely go faster than me but you stayed within pace. Thanks. It's really good to have a "teacher" when you are new at something. Right now, I am new at road riding and there are so many new stuffs to consider. Like what wcoastbo said, I still have to learn the etiquette and signs. I'm still ignorant of the roadie language...
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