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Post by spyghost on Oct 7, 2016 14:52:27 GMT 8
I'm still practicing this skill (getting there).
The main reason why one cannot maintain a stable or near stable position is that the rider 'should' let go of the lead foot and put pressure on the back foot so that the pawls can disengage and allow the bike can move backward (regardless if it's via gravity driven or induced by the backward momentum from releasing the brakes and pulling). In other words, perform a slight 'back pedal'
It took my feeble mind a while before figuring out why i keep losing my balance. I noticed this movement when tuning my RD - the wheel won't turn backward when there is chain tension. This is how the freewheel works (duh).
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Post by konablack on Oct 7, 2016 16:08:12 GMT 8
Have you tried practicing on a slight incline?
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Post by anthrax76 on Oct 7, 2016 17:27:00 GMT 8
yun o, he he he listen to konablack but yeah, if you're beginning, a slight incline helps. the procedure your following is based on a track bike which is a fixie, hence back pedalling can be done. but with a freewheel you'd most likely move forward than back unless you're on an incline. i teach it during sharing sessions in UP Diliman.
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Post by spyghost on Oct 7, 2016 20:59:05 GMT 8
yes i do it in an incline.
in flat land, braking and pulling back will simulate the backward movement. same concept applies when in an incline facing down.
the toughest part is staying as if no movement exists.
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Post by anthrax76 on Oct 8, 2016 18:14:02 GMT 8
we're pretty much in the same boat, i can't hold the bike still for a long time, something has to move. it can be the handlebar changing directions, a little forward movement, a little backward rock. thing is, as long as you can pretty much stay in the same place, i think it's all good.
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xtnz
Lurker
Posts: 23
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Post by xtnz on Oct 9, 2016 7:37:23 GMT 8
@anthrax, kelan po ba ang next sharing sessions nyo sa UP?
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Post by anthrax76 on Oct 9, 2016 18:42:05 GMT 8
yun lang he he he. kapag may holiday lang ako libre eh, kailan ba next? sa undas?
anyway, nilalaro ko pa rin naman ang brakes on trackstand kapag flat.
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Post by konablack on Oct 10, 2016 7:37:48 GMT 8
I'll make sure to check the sched during weekends so that I cannot miss the Sharing Session On the way I see it, it's really difficult to be steady/still in a trackstand (because of the freewheel). That's why it's also essential to learn pivots and rocking
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Post by spyghost on Oct 10, 2016 9:10:44 GMT 8
I'll make sure to check the sched during weekends so that I cannot miss the Sharing Session On the way I see it, it's really difficult to be steady/still in a trackstand (because of the freewheel). That's why it's also essential to learn pivots and rocking precisely! rocking and hopping can 'fix' the imbalance brought about by a freewheel trackstand since the motion actually 'resets' the stance once landed. for practicality sake, trackstands, hopping and rocking are the essential trial skills that can help greatly on the trail. my personal status: trackstands - getting there hopping - almost getting there, still need to refine with both brakes on rocking - just scratched the surface (scratched my shins really)
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Post by konablack on Oct 10, 2016 9:19:37 GMT 8
It also helps if you could lower your saddle and use a wider handlebar. Try reading some of the old threads in the Trials and Urban Assault section Have fun learning!
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Post by anthrax76 on Oct 10, 2016 10:41:00 GMT 8
hmm....maybe i'm doing it wrong, he he he. anyway, i just push the pedals forward, i don't have rear movement unless it's an incline.
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Post by spyghost on Oct 10, 2016 13:29:06 GMT 8
It also helps if you could lower your saddle and use a wider handlebar. Try reading some of the old threads in the Trials and Urban Assault section Have fun learning! i find the 125 drop of my saddle just enough for performing these moves, but i do like the saddle completely out of the way of course as it offers more freedom of movement my 750mm handlebar mated with a 40mm stem is just enough for me; however, i do find its 20mm rise a bit on the low side when performing slow trial movements - i can compensate though. i'm thinking of swapping it out with a 30mm riser and/or an even shorter stem (35mm). as in all cases, there always has to be a compromise.
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Post by spyghost on Jan 14, 2017 9:34:22 GMT 8
just sharing an update on my progression... i was able to do a series of momentary trackstands on flat offroad surface.
in my case, common mistakes are: - cranks not level to the ground or front cranks almost sloping vertically forward - not standing tall - not looking far - not modulating front brake
thing is one has to apply fr brakes every so often specially when applying rearward force. when applying rearward force, timing between modulated fr brake and slight back pedal is crucial to simulate a fixie back pedal.
a feeling of fr wheel pivot means your too far forward. you should aim for the reaching just the fine line before reaching this sensation and the zen feeling of rear balance.
it's tough to explain but practice it. you'll know what i'm talking about when you've logged enough hours.
looking forward makes one focus on chain tension which is what you should aim for. forward crank movement and backward momentum (fr brake and hip movement) will provide the tension all throughout. the moment you lose chain tension, you'll lose balance.
relax... a tense muscular system will remove the state of balance.
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Post by esulit on Jan 14, 2017 13:29:07 GMT 8
How long does it have to be to qualify as a trackstand?
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Post by spyghost on Jan 14, 2017 15:25:25 GMT 8
How long does it have to be to qualify as a trackstand? good question... but idk i think as long as one can stay relatively stationary, it's ok (ie moving back n forth for starters, and not going circles) as time goes by, the back and forth movements become minimal and barely noticeable. in other words, someone trackstanding isn't really stationary perse but doing invisible minute corrections every so often
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Post by esulit on Jan 14, 2017 20:14:39 GMT 8
Yeah, I know what you mean. The imbalance is caused by over correcting. If you can stop the over correcting (achieving the state of making tiny corrections) then you can trackstand indefinitely.
So a legit trackstand should be one where you will barely notice the movement of the bike.
Does that make sense?
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Post by spyghost on Jan 14, 2017 22:10:57 GMT 8
Yeah, I know what you mean. The imbalance is caused by over correcting. If you can stop the over correcting (achieving the state of making tiny corrections) then you can trackstand indefinitely. So a legit trackstand should be one where you will barely notice the movement of the bike. Does that make sense? strictly speaking yes... see the likes of danny macaskill, ryan leech, etc... who can still converse, smile and explain when doing trackstands.
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Post by dekszie on Feb 2, 2017 17:11:50 GMT 8
interesting thoughts...been practicing trackstand but to no avail... 'will try and try again and again
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Post by konablack on Apr 17, 2017 7:52:02 GMT 8
It doesn't have to be that long to qualify as a trackstand. Note that trackstands are used in preparation for a next move such as a pedalhop but i mainly use it when the traffic signal is red you can also learn how to pivot to correct the trackstand and do weightshifts as well At first, i thought trackstands are impossible but just have time to learn and you'll eventually get used to it
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Post by spyghost on Apr 17, 2017 8:33:02 GMT 8
at this moment i'm still stuck with the timing of back pedal and backward movement even on inclines - not gifted with good proprioception. i always tend to over/under compensate (for the lack of a better term) and seem to have a problem hitting the middle ground
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Post by spyghost on Jul 15, 2017 11:15:19 GMT 8
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