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Post by warlock^_^ on Nov 6, 2007 10:10:30 GMT 8
article from light-bikes.de5rot, a start-up company around Christoph Muthers from Germany has done a well job of constructing a fully functional and well developed shifting system for mountain bikes. The shifting is nearly frictionless, light, and performs with perfect accuracy. This hydraulic shifting system costs about 1500 Euro (approx. $2000). What about the specific weights? The rear derailleur comes with 161g, the front derailleur starts at 98g (different mounting) and the gear shifters have 144g. The whole setup including front and rear shifters, front and rear derailleurs, with lines and fluid weights about 495g. The rear derailleur with 16 ball bearings! The front derailleur with 6 ball bearings. The gear shifters with 8 ball bearings. Detailed prices: The rear derailleur: 905 Euro The front derailleur: 605 Euro Complete set: 1505 Euro Contact: Muthers Fahrradkomponentenbau Hans Bunte Str. 15 Fax: +49 761 7048599 79108 Freiburg Germany email:005@5rot.com
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Post by flipnidaho on Nov 6, 2007 10:36:17 GMT 8
1500 Euro... OUCH!
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Post by mountguitars on Nov 6, 2007 10:47:58 GMT 8
hopefully shimano comes up with something affordable, hehehe. ;D .
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Post by anthrax76 on Nov 6, 2007 11:00:24 GMT 8
hydraulics...hmm....can't remember who (shimano, campy, sram) who came up with an electronic shifting.
nice concept but...ouch on the pocket....so how much is the Rohloff hub? ;D
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Post by warlock^_^ on Nov 6, 2007 12:20:15 GMT 8
hydraulics...hmm....can't remember who (shimano, campy, sram) who came up with an electronic shifting. nice concept but...ouch on the pocket....so how much is the Rohloff hub? ;D campy did.... its in cyclingnews site somewhere. Rohloff cost 1,023 euro (black & red)... disc brake ready, silver goes for 985euros LINK
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Post by bernie on Nov 6, 2007 13:05:49 GMT 8
The Concept is Good but we need Cash, hehehhehe.
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Post by Ben Dover on Nov 6, 2007 13:06:04 GMT 8
i remember shimano once had airlines (?)...but its air...yes, there's a canister of air...not sure how many shifts per canister tho.
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Post by warlock^_^ on Nov 6, 2007 13:38:56 GMT 8
i remember shimano once had airlines (?)...but its air...yes, there's a canister of air...not sure how many shifts per canister tho. Shimano Air,was released only for the DH pro teams. Since rider can recharge the canister after every DH run.
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Post by marcs on Nov 6, 2007 17:39:23 GMT 8
my take is, what's the point? shifting is crisp enough as it is with mechs, and you don't need modulation on it anyway. just complicates the entire system I think. diff situation compared to brakes mech vs hydros.
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Post by flipnidaho on Nov 6, 2007 20:11:54 GMT 8
i think Mavic tried the electronic shifting originally (pre-Campy)... Campy is trying the wireless approach. Of course, if they do, it's only a matter of time before someone can hack into it with a PDA or cell phone. Imagine climbing up the steepest part of the wall and someone hacks into your wireless shifting to put it into the 52/12... Now that would be funny...
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Post by g.b.b on Nov 7, 2007 0:44:58 GMT 8
i think Mavic tried the electronic shifting originally (pre-Campy)... Campy is trying the wireless approach. Of course, if they do, it's only a matter of time before someone can hack into it with a PDA or cell phone. Imagine climbing up the steepest part of the wall and someone hacks into your wireless shifting to put it into the 52/12... Now that would be funny... LOL... crazy people's idea just to save weight and innovate useless technology........ well.... in the near future everything will be wireless.......... why dont they invent wireless brake system....... hehehe
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Post by marcs on Nov 7, 2007 8:57:29 GMT 8
I suppose. And most do end up still as crazy ideas . . . but hey, if one turns out to be a brilliant invention then why not.
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Post by warlock^_^ on Nov 7, 2007 8:57:44 GMT 8
why dont they invent wireless brake system....... hehehe Well everything started out as crazy ideas.... looking back on the early picture of bikes, you wont see any cables as well. Yeah true, this hydraulic really be a pain when you have trapped air in the system and give a whole new meaning to ghost shifting. This brings back memories of my hydro brakes lockup.
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Post by flipnidaho on Nov 7, 2007 10:30:24 GMT 8
i think they would have better luck developing and selling a sealed internally geared transmission that is light and race ready.
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Post by glockbiker on Nov 7, 2007 10:35:56 GMT 8
@flipinidaho
Yes it was Mavic.
In fact, Joven's Bikeshop had a complete set on display in their estante in the mid-90s. To shift, one merely had to press buttons marked (+) or (-). No paddles, no triggers, nothing to twist.
I wonder if they ever got to sell it because it sat there gathering dust for several years.
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Post by warlock^_^ on Nov 7, 2007 10:41:26 GMT 8
i think they would have better luck developing and selling a sealed internally geared transmission that is light and race ready. Imagine how much the Rohloff Diet Special would cost..... Sure will come out sometime soon, if not from Rohloff maybe from others.
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Post by flipnidaho on Nov 7, 2007 10:52:30 GMT 8
but i bet there will be a looong line if rohloff came up with a superlight version! i'd be one of them. imagine no more tweaked hangers and drivetrains that last forever...
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Post by anthrax76 on Nov 7, 2007 11:13:12 GMT 8
this would be OT already, but if you'll use an internally geared hub plus today's frame designs. wouldn't suspension change the chain length from the crank to the rear hub? or would it stay the same
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Post by warlock^_^ on Nov 7, 2007 12:35:09 GMT 8
this would be OT already, but if you'll use an internally geared hub plus today's frame designs. wouldn't suspension change the chain length from the crank to the rear hub? or would it stay the same hmm interesting thought there... what made you think so? Looking at the bike geometries from different manufacturer...will it be hard tail or full sus, the chain stay length still goes more or less by 17".
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Post by anthrax76 on Nov 7, 2007 12:56:46 GMT 8
the way i see it, if you're running an FS, the pivot of the chain would be on the BB. but the suspension might pivot somewhere else (visible in single pivot suspension, as opposed to a URT). this is during motion already. spez said that the FSR counters this, maybe due to the linkage design, but i'm not sure about this. so if you're using an internally geared hub, single chainring....the motion of suspension might tighten or slacken on the chain. just got me thinking, but i could be wrong though
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Post by warlock^_^ on Nov 7, 2007 13:41:50 GMT 8
nope...your in the right track, they call this chainstay growth. If I remember correctly even Rohloff uses chain tensioner to deal with this issue TheRohloff chain tensioner is easy to install, it simply mounts to the existing derailleur hanger of the frame. Spacers are used for lateral adjustability. For the quick wheel removal the Rohloff chain tensioner swings back when pulling the wheel out of the dropouts. The Rohloff chain tensioner has a tensioning capacity of 10 chain links which is sufficiant even for long travel rear suspensions.
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Post by anthrax76 on Nov 7, 2007 14:52:07 GMT 8
Cooool!!! thanks Master Warlock i knew i'd learn a lot from this forum, he he he for weights...it just gets me thinking what if 5rot took the approach of rohloff. hydraulic shifting of an internally geared hub. not sure about the weight savings on that though.
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Post by makoyondrun on Nov 21, 2007 8:23:54 GMT 8
hydraulics? again? guys if you want some opinion on this, it is not that worth the money!!! if this gets hurt on a trail i can asure you..... your not going down that mountain on your bike but your bike on you!if your just going to use this for a strall in the park or in your village, that's going to be fine! sorry to brake some dreams guys! peace out!!!
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Post by warlock^_^ on Nov 21, 2007 10:21:04 GMT 8
It seems you tried this already... mind giving us the review on the particular model/brand you experienced using.
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Post by mambruko on Nov 22, 2007 8:31:44 GMT 8
should have a hydraulic pocket also.he..he..he
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jacklero
Free Rider
Haha! Mine is longer!
Posts: 226
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Post by jacklero on Dec 12, 2007 1:26:21 GMT 8
save weight and cash ride single speed! ehehehe, btw it was mavic who first innovated electric shifting using a + -button initially tried for road bike use. I remember reading about it in one of my bicycling magazine issues circa 1993
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Post by pjax on Dec 24, 2007 18:25:31 GMT 8
i'm not a weight weenie so I don't have any idea on how heavy 495g is... especially how heavy in XTR units it is...
anyone care to make the comparison?
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