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Post by jakecastle on Feb 17, 2006 14:48:06 GMT 8
I've recently had my hub machine shoped, "torno ata tawag nila", so that it can accomodate cassette type / sealed bearings. I have yet to test it. Have any of you guys tried it before? What should I expect? What are the pros and cons?
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Post by rob on Feb 17, 2006 15:24:12 GMT 8
havn't tried housing a sealed bearing in a cassete type house before. however you can test it by turning the bike upside down and then spin the wheel. If everything works out well, you will notice the longer spinning period it takes before the wheel comes to a complete stop. If not, try Jujo sealed hubs, they are good value for money hubs. I'm sure the guys here can help you or I can get you a pair, if you like? just PM me.
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Post by Poseur on Feb 17, 2006 17:51:29 GMT 8
so what's the point of asking if it's been done already? use it and then tell us about it. maybe take some pictures and show us what part was machined to accomodate the sealed B. how the axle fit w/ the whole set-up... is it worth it... how much did it cost... how long did it take... etc etc. you have more info than we can imagine.
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Post by jakecastle on Feb 21, 2006 18:39:26 GMT 8
The machine shop billed me Php80 yup eigthy pesos. I was asking because I wanted to know what problems to expect from this mod.
Right now my problem is the sealed B.'s hole is about .5mm too big. I was wondering if there is a standard axle with a slightly bigger diameter. I used the feather brand axle kasi. can anyone help me find where to find a slightly bigger axle? Thanks guys. Soyy tamad me magpost ng pics kasi dial up lang gamit ko and its sooooo slow. sorry.
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Post by king on Feb 21, 2006 19:12:22 GMT 8
i'm afraid you may have toasted your hub. all sorts of problems can happen now. aside from the raxle size, which is already a huge problem, an imprecise bearing fit can wreck the housing. plus, not all bearings maybe strong enough for trail use. not all cartridge/cassette type bearings for example, are sealed. a friend of mine bought replacement bearings for his mavic hub. they were the correct size, but not original mavic replacements. they were cheap, around P60 each, but they broke within a month and destroyed the hub internals.
there's nothing actually wrong with loose-ball bearings. the biggest benefit they have is that they are absolutely serviceable practically everywhere. any shop can open them up, repack the bearings in grease or replace them if needed. you can even do it yourself. if you look at the hubs on the shimano xt & xtr wheelsets for example, they still use loose-ball bearings for this reason.
what hubs were you using by the way, and why did you decide to try it?
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Post by Poseur on Feb 22, 2006 1:15:04 GMT 8
yeah i don't understand this also. i really would like to see one in person. i guess some thinks it's just a matter of boring a bigger hole and pressing in a sealed B and that's it. why wasn't the axle sized before buying/installing the bearings? i really rather ride Shimano's engineered non-sealed Bs than use one of these self-engineered versions.
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Post by jakecastle on Feb 23, 2006 1:56:05 GMT 8
experience, experimentation, actually meron na palang thread about this sa tech help.
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Lance_R_evo
All-Mountain Rider
GT is Da Bomb!!!!
Posts: 176
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Post by Lance_R_evo on Feb 23, 2006 13:29:27 GMT 8
this thing was common back then (Waaayy back, BMX days of mine...around early 90's)
unfortunately, BMX hubs have a rather larger bearing race, thus larger bearings....though we didn't have that .5mm difference, the hub-to-bearing-to-axle was actually tight, so no slack or play....
this made the hubs much more tougher and durable, especially since Japan grade heavy duty bearings were used. my cousin still have his hubs upto now, and the bearings are still ok to all his abuse of BMX jumping, add to the fact that he's around 200lbs....
things like these really relies upon how good the machine shop is, and how strong the bearings you put into it too...
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Post by jakecastle on Mar 2, 2006 4:31:29 GMT 8
finally got the exact axle for use with those awesome KOYO sealed BB's I got. Perfect fit for the bearing cap (the one's used in the ARAYA BMX hubs, Feather as mentioned by Mr. LAnce) which I had machined for use with my Hubs. Hopefully I can jump with this baby and not worry about loose bearings. I read somewhere that these bearings are able to last 30,000 miles to 50,000 miles before it requires replacement so hopefully it'll be worth it. In the meantine with the money I set aside to buy new deore hubs and sprocket I can now purchase a hydration pack and helmet.. Hurraaahh Will post pics and complete report after 1 week torture test.
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Post by jakecastle on Mar 6, 2006 3:10:03 GMT 8
inset KOYO sealed bearings, sealed BB axle
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Post by jakecastle on Mar 12, 2006 1:28:19 GMT 8
With my tire pressue set at 85 psi and my weight at 210 lbs I set out to test these bearings. After jumping curbs, stairs and every obstacle I can "safely" handle I was NOT disappointed. The axle didn't bend, the bearings are still working perfectly and there is zero play between the axle and bearings. IMHO this little project was well worth my resources.
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Post by Patrick on Mar 12, 2006 9:00:31 GMT 8
85 psi? are you sure?
Nice mod, give us a long term review as well. Do you have the photo of the hub after you assembled it?
Can this be done with a front hub designed for BB's? I always toast my BB's every 2 months or so.
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Post by jakecastle on Mar 13, 2006 1:05:14 GMT 8
my humble contribution to the community. My guess is if those BMX bikes can take the abuse so should these.
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Post by jakecastle on Mar 13, 2006 1:16:54 GMT 8
that was my problem. I ended up with a bent axle and damaged bearings every month. The formula hub was orignally designed to use ball bearings.
Yes my tire pressure was at 85 psi (max tire pressure indicated by the MOB tires. I use 26x1.38 slicks hence the high air pressure.
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Post by Patrick on Mar 13, 2006 12:47:04 GMT 8
I wonder how hard 85psi is hehe, I personally prefer 25 psi hehe.
I use a shimano BB hub I wonder If I can do that too.
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Lance_R_evo
All-Mountain Rider
GT is Da Bomb!!!!
Posts: 176
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Post by Lance_R_evo on Mar 13, 2006 13:08:32 GMT 8
I wonder how hard 85psi is hehe, I personally prefer 25 psi hehe. I use a shimano BB hub I wonder If I can do that too. that's because you're using a larger tire, remember that slimmer tires like jake's are rated at higher PSIs, much like some 700c tires are rated at 90-110 PSI... for us with MTB size tires, 25-40 PSI is the norm...using higher than 65PSI on MTB tires will mostly lead to tire blow-offs, mostly at the bead... the slimmer the tire gets, the more air it needs because the tires have a smaller contact patch with the ground, while trying to carry a much larger weight..
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Post by jakecastle on Mar 19, 2006 0:33:27 GMT 8
cartridge bearing MOD log 1st entry
odometer reading: 80kms
distance traveled from installation: 80kms stairs ridden: the kalabaw in front of quirino grandstand near CCP entrance of dragon boats curbs attacked: too many to count
status: still intact, 0 play
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Post by jakecastle on Mar 20, 2006 16:56:46 GMT 8
cartridge bearing MOD log 2nd entry
odometer reading: 219 kms
status: still intact, 0 play. 1 flat tire during the TOF marshall ride, changed the derailer's cable and housing, but the sealed bb's are still a ok!
Am still laughing at the thought that some riders find 85 psi tire pressure incredible. heheheh ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Patrick on Mar 21, 2006 0:06:30 GMT 8
dude bent axles,jumping stairs? I didnt think you had small tires so I thought it was incredible. I pump 85 on my roadbike all the time so it isnt incredible for me. Maybe you should have gotten larger tires to absorb the shock in the first place hehe.
BTW how much additional weight did the mod add to the hubs? Was it significant?
Sayang you didnt have the before shot.
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Post by jakecastle on Mar 21, 2006 22:34:39 GMT 8
The weight penalty is about 90 grams +/- 20 i think which is in my opinion insignificant. I really wanted skinny tire kasi I use it around the city as a commuter.
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Post by jakecastle on May 12, 2006 14:35:52 GMT 8
cartridge bearing MOD log 3rd entry
odometer reading: 640 kms
after having survived the TOF marhsall rides, the TOF, urban commuting and free riding the mod is still ok. Replaced my 1.15 slicks with 1.5 slicks already after hacing experienced two flats and a snack bite in a week.
status: still intact, 0 play. 1 flat tire during the TOF marshall ride, changed the derailer's cable and housing, but the sealed bb's are still a ok!
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Post by wcoastbo on May 13, 2006 2:37:05 GMT 8
jakecastle - nice experiment, even better that it worked out for you.
I don't have a problem with upgrading bearings this way on an old hub, especially if it's already trashed or wornout. You learned a lot in the process and passed on the knowledge. Kudos!
It was probably time consuming, but at least the money outlay was minimal. Finding a machine shop you trust to do quality work is difficult. Risky project, but it paid-off in the end.
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Post by jakecastle on May 16, 2006 18:56:47 GMT 8
Between having to stop riding and wait till I had saved enough greens to buy the hubs of my dreams versus asking the veterans how it's done and putting in the work - I am absolutely satisfied that it worked out.
thanks to Lance for the Tip on the axle thingie, the local machine shop for carefully machining my old parts to specs, and to Wcoastbo for his comment.
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Post by jakecastle on Nov 5, 2006 18:52:18 GMT 8
cartridge bearing MOD log 4th entry
odometer reading: i already lost track !!!!
changed 1.25 to 1.5 slicks four months ago, now running w/ tire pressure at 45 +/- 5 psi
I've had to install custom made drop out I got from boyet the fabricator (actually i left the part at cycle art and boyet came to collect it from there, really good craftsmanship) cause my old drop out gave out. Also changed my rear deraullier. I have installed a new stem I got from chad but hahhaahhaha the cartridge bearings still works.
Yes nine months strong and with all that abuse and they still work!!!!
tatus: still intact the sealed bb's are still a ok!
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hance
Free Rider
My personal tattoo artist.
Posts: 389
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Post by hance on Nov 6, 2006 6:48:35 GMT 8
I'm wonderin' how sealed cartridge bearings would fare on accidental submersions during river crossings. Kasi sa loose-ball bearings, pasukin man ng tubig, repack lang, ok na.
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Post by jakecastle on Nov 6, 2006 18:59:00 GMT 8
I'm wonderin' how sealed cartridge bearings would fare on accidental submersions during river crossings. Kasi sa loose-ball bearings, pasukin man ng tubig, repack lang, ok na.Cant really tell, but i remember when milenyo came along nilusong ko bike so along flooded espana... la namang problema sa hubs.... yung bolts on my bottle cage and chain was a different story.... But then again it's even easier to replace both cassette bearings and the housing easily - perhaps even easier than repacking and handling individual bearings. Am wanting to upgrade to Shimano Deore na nga rin for "porma effect" (vanity)/bling-bling, but it seems my hubs just wont quit .
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Post by bongjumper on Nov 7, 2006 10:01:02 GMT 8
jakecastle... Very nice idea for this convertion of bearing hub to sealed bearing... You also need to consider that experience using it in the flooded road, design a water seal to prolong the life of the bearing...
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Post by Alphabolt on Nov 8, 2006 0:08:13 GMT 8
Great thread It seems my XT rear hub s busted [bearing seat channel has problems na daw as per mech] . I had it repacked still but may taning na tsk tsk Unless my "cheapo" mind agrees on an upgrade/replacement...I might copy the experiment. It is a busted hub anyway...no loss ....correction : maybe P150 loss if I fail Gas pa lang ubos na yun one-way pa lang though heheh ..for the heck of it na lang kaya
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Post by Alphabolt on Nov 8, 2006 0:09:50 GMT 8
OT How much are Sun Juju hubs nowadays ? best deals around for it? thanks bandidos !
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Post by raven on Nov 9, 2006 13:41:24 GMT 8
arnel..i think they sell it for 1700..but try quiapo...there's a lot of miracle prices there..
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