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Post by bongjumper on Nov 21, 2007 15:21:06 GMT 8
The first time I saw in MB action Magazine the picture of SRAM rear shifter with 1:1 actuation ratio. It embossed in my mind that I purchase one set once it is available in the LBS. When SRAM X-9 with triggers is already part of my bike. I Use and review how is the shifting. I'm completely satisfied with the response of this RD. Even at steep climb, nothing to worry, just do the push on the triggers and RD will do the rest. Not like Shimano RD, irritating sound first then transfer to sprocket or sometimes will not change at all. From then, I never use Shimano RD anymore. I¡¯m a die-hard SRAM user. I used X0, X7, the 06 X9 and the 07 X9. But this makes me disappointed, the shifting response of all these models in not the same. Even the new 07 X9 is not as good as the 1st generation X9 I bought last 2003. What is really the difference with these SRAM¡¯s RD. Crime Investigation is needed to find out the answer to this puzzle. So I started to put all this SRAM RD on the table and started to compare. How it works, dimension difference, spring action and the mechanical parts. The cause of this shifting response is the Jockey Pulley. This is a upper pulley on the rear derailleur that guides the chain from the sprocket to another. X-0 and 1st Gen X9 have sealed bearing on the Jockey Pulley. 07 X9 and X7 don¡¯t have this sealed bearing in the Jockey Pulley and there is a small amount of sideward motion like the Shimano RD. To proved my analysis is right. I installed the X0 Jockey pulley in the X9 RD and the jockey pulley from X9 installed in the X0 RD. The result, X9 RD shifting response is completely like X0. Conclusion to this experiment, jockey pulley with the sealed bearing is the main reason of this crisp shifting response of X0 To make the X9 and X7 shifting response same as X0, I fabricated my own jockey pulley. CNC and made of AL7001, anodized silver, sealed bearing, O-ring for additional protection to the sealed bearing. Same weight as the original X9 jockey pulley but heavier by 5 grams to the X0 jockey pulley. Total cost me more or less PHP500.00 per piece. This how it looks when started my manufacturing. The finished product: This is for SRAM X9 and X7¡ Installed in the SRAM X-9 07 model. Installed in the Shimano Deore LX RD. It¡¯s also improves the Shimano RD Shifting Response.
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Post by grnhrnt on Nov 21, 2007 16:17:04 GMT 8
Bongjumper,
"it also improves Shimano RD Shifting Response"
Sorry can you kindly elaborate. Does this mean you can also use your fabricated jockey pulley on Shimano RDs?
Hmmmm.....
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Post by bongjumper on Nov 21, 2007 16:35:18 GMT 8
Yes, As you seen on the image above, I had made also for shimano and test it with shimano RD... Since my jockey wheels is fix and NO sideways movement like the original Shimano jockey wheels. Once you shift, there is no delay and it will transfer the chain to the next cogs...
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Post by marcs on Nov 21, 2007 16:58:54 GMT 8
wow good investigation. how do we order?
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Post by bongjumper on Nov 21, 2007 17:10:55 GMT 8
;D ;D ;D PM if you like to order...
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Post by Ben Dover on Nov 21, 2007 17:46:36 GMT 8
you got PM
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Post by GALVinChie on Nov 21, 2007 19:17:46 GMT 8
If I do change my pulleys, does it mean I ought to change my shifters as well Sir Bong?
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Post by grnhrnt on Nov 21, 2007 19:23:04 GMT 8
hehe oo nga naman, I posted my question before the picture on the LX RDloaded kasi.
I just replaced my XTR rollers 2 months ago, and the shifting did improve.
I'll keep you in mind when these wear out. Thanks
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Post by BrusKO on Nov 21, 2007 20:12:55 GMT 8
500 pala. Pa-order!
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Post by coilerblue on Nov 21, 2007 20:18:29 GMT 8
sir bong ask ko lang if you have upgrades like that for shimano users thanks...
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Post by BrusKO on Nov 21, 2007 20:21:46 GMT 8
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xfire
All-Mountain Rider
ride on
Posts: 189
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Post by xfire on Nov 21, 2007 21:20:16 GMT 8
When you say the shifting response of the Shimano improved, does this mean you made the Shimano into a 1:1 actuation ratio?
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Post by BrusKO on Nov 21, 2007 21:44:25 GMT 8
When you say the shifting response of the Shimano improved, does this mean you made the Shimano into a 1:1 actuation ratio? Sir, I don't think the jockey pulley has anything to do with the actuation ratio. Improved shifting may mean instant or more responsive shifting.
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Post by flipnidaho on Nov 21, 2007 22:45:13 GMT 8
Awesome Bong. I'd like to try those out! shimano's floating pulleys were meant for RD's that were not exactly adjusted (and we all know that Shimano systems need to be clean and totally dialed in to perform well). SRAM's 1:1 systems allow more slop in the system since the pull at the shifter is not magnified by cams to more cable pull at the RD. Bongjumper's system seems to be better machined than the X9 or X0 pulleys which makes them a bit more precise and definitely better bearings. I've torn apart some old SRAM RD's which uses bushings for bearings and any kind of mud riding or power washing would've rendered them rough in no time... Bong- do you need an importer to sell your stuff in the US??? I'm putting together an eBay store here exclusively for bike clothing (and maybe parts) built/made in the PI... Also- an upgrade that people would pay for would be replacement pulley cages for the SRAM system since they are relatively easy to tweak...
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Post by coilerblue on Nov 21, 2007 22:51:06 GMT 8
sir bong is it 500 for the pair?
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Post by mountguitars on Nov 22, 2007 2:09:40 GMT 8
sir bong, i did the same thing. i mean, i tried to do an investigation. i had 2 shimano RDs and the shifting sucks on the other one. so as i found out, it looks like the d@mn jockey wheels are to be blamed for. so i'll be sending you a PM, hehe.
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Post by randiezbee on Nov 22, 2007 5:06:33 GMT 8
wow... i send you a pm na sir bong
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Post by xctofi on Nov 22, 2007 6:13:48 GMT 8
good thing got XO already.hehehe Thank You sir Bong for sharing this information to us. now Bruce is happy that there is something new, useful and worth the read in PinoyMTBiker. we need more guys like you here. *guys try to read please
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Post by BrusKO on Nov 22, 2007 7:56:28 GMT 8
Another question:
The pulley's material is aluminum? Will it then induce more wear and tear on the chain? Stock pulleys are made of plastic and isn't this because these are meant to wear down (instead of wearing down the chains)?
Also Bong,
Can holes be drilled into the pulleys to further lighten them or will it tear?
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Post by Lui-G on Nov 22, 2007 8:04:06 GMT 8
So, you've finally revealed it, Bong. Ok, I'm convinced, pa-order!
But, would you have other color/s aside from GOLD? Silver or Black, perhaps?
Thanks and regards.
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Daimler
Free Rider
carpe diem, baby...
Posts: 382
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Post by Daimler on Nov 22, 2007 8:19:07 GMT 8
if a plastic sealed bearing pulley will be used, will it perform better over the conventional bushing-type?
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Post by BrusKO on Nov 22, 2007 8:21:25 GMT 8
Coilerblue: Total cost me more or less PHP500.00 per piece.
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Post by coilerblue on Nov 22, 2007 8:31:17 GMT 8
okay thanks brusko di ko napansin hehehe
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Post by antonio on Nov 22, 2007 8:35:16 GMT 8
do you have to replace both pulleys for shimano?
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Daimler
Free Rider
carpe diem, baby...
Posts: 382
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Post by Daimler on Nov 22, 2007 8:46:17 GMT 8
do you have to replace both pulleys for shimano? i think it's only the jockey pulley that you have to replace since it's the one responsible for guiding the direction of the chain, whether inward or outward. but if you want to add bling, you can replace both. just my 2 cents.
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Post by antonio on Nov 22, 2007 8:51:03 GMT 8
thanks daimler, upper pulley is only stated above but the SRAM pics shows both...replacing lower pulley will not be cost effective.
pa-order ng 1 pulley for shimano please.
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Daimler
Free Rider
carpe diem, baby...
Posts: 382
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Post by Daimler on Nov 22, 2007 9:00:27 GMT 8
thanks daimler, upper pulley is only stated above but the SRAM pics shows both...replacing lower pulley will not be cost effective. pa-order ng 1 pulley for shimano please. no worries, brad...
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Post by bongjumper on Nov 22, 2007 9:07:57 GMT 8
Hi Antonio, Daimler is right, You only need to replace the Jockey Wheels to improve the response of your RD. Hi Brusko, Aluminum is softer than the chain which is made of Steel. The wear out of both parts is very minimal. I used mine for six month and still good as new... Will reply to your PM . dami kasi eh PM ko eh... Hi Daimler, plastic is much lighter than Aluminum and will be cheaper too. But the Toolings is expensive. And the minimum order quantity need more 10K... Hi Galvinchie, No need to replace the shifter if you replace your jockey wheels... Hi Flip n Idaho, This is big, I smell a new bike for your proposal. I will PM you my company add and discuss further... ;D ;D ;D
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Post by antonio on Nov 22, 2007 9:33:41 GMT 8
if you are from china then orders should be made by bulk then shipping cost will be divided among buyers, dhl or fedex perhaps?
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Post by kulot_salot on Nov 22, 2007 10:13:26 GMT 8
boss bong, just an inquiry.... is the jockey pulley you manufactured similar to the design of kcnc ceramic bearings pulleys? i hate to think that kcnc ceramic bearings pulleys is just for bling and nothing more... thanks!!! more power brad!!!
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