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Post by MR. SUAVE on Sept 1, 2004 10:12:20 GMT 8
Hello guys, Just wanted to confirm from your valuable experience. Am scouting for a frame. My ride usually entails mostly urban scenes and but would love to hit the trail and do DH stuff more often. Am kinda tight on the budget din. Ok lang ba HT since I can throw it more easier than the FS frame.
please shed some light. thanks
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Post by stormloader on Sept 1, 2004 11:11:45 GMT 8
Hello guys, Just wanted to confirm from your valuable experience. Am scouting for a frame. My ride usually entails mostly urban scenes and but would love to hit the trail and do DH stuff more often. Am kinda tight on the budget din. Ok lang ba HT since I can throw it more easier than the FS frame. please shed some light. thanks brad, I read somewhere that there's a phenonemon of sorts na ganyan sa US (somewhere sa east ata) where it's becoming common yung HT's converted into DH rigs complete with massive forks, rotors and tires. Personally i've ridden with some guys na may ganyang set-up (for some reason GTS ata yun fitted with DNM or RST forks - so budget wise mura2 yun) Ang issue lang dito i think is dehins dapat masyado ma-upset ang geometry ng HT kasi iba talaga compared sa DH/free ride rigs with the probable exception of few big hit hardtails like Da Bomb or Jamis Komodo FX. Though tingin ko, the most you can accomodate is a 6" dh fork siguro hope that helped
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Post by woofers on Sept 1, 2004 11:53:00 GMT 8
check out www.hardtailpride.com/I think there's an upper limit as to how long a fork you can put on your HT. Probably 6". Then again, if you're into serious DH you'll really need the rear suspension and an even longer travel fork.
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Post by gulliver on Sept 1, 2004 13:35:44 GMT 8
i think its in Canada where the crazies w/ specially configured HT frames are used with long-travel forks ;D
but of course you can always work with locally available sturdy HTs, w/ good forks...but still have to see one balanced enough to handle more than 4" of travel.
HT for DH? as long as the terrain is not extreme, and you're not going too fast, why not? ;D ;D ;D
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Post by maxbuwaya on Sept 1, 2004 14:51:53 GMT 8
ang alam ko the longer the fork travel the lesser naman ang frame size.
Ang pattern niyan alam ko is dirtjump bike
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Post by trixxter on Sept 1, 2004 21:47:14 GMT 8
I heard of the term "HUCKING". I'm not sure if this is considered downhill. I've seen pictures of HT bikes for this discipline. Ang frame parang style BMX except bigger(size 12"-14") that can still accomodate 26"X2.35" tires and long travel single/triple crown forks. Frame material is usually cromoly steel if not beefy aluminum with lots of gussets all over. As far as I can remember brands I've seen were DaVINCE, COVE, SPECIALIZED P series, DABOMB, KONA, KHS, MOUNTAIN CYCLES, NORCO, SINISTER, ORANGE, CHUMBAWAMBA
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Post by fattire on Sept 2, 2004 2:05:20 GMT 8
sabi nga ni trixxter dapat dami gussets
here are my two cents:
scout for frames with:
a. boxed seat and chain stays b. agressively sloped toptubes c. maikli lang dapat sa cockpit section
i feel like an old bag saying this but i've not heard of the word "dual slalom" or "slalom" anymore? i'm quite sure that's what guided me when i scoured LBS's until i settled for what i'm using right now
pasensya na kayo i had to ask that, haven't been riding magazines or other 'net forums for kaya di ako updated.
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Post by MR. SUAVE on Sept 2, 2004 15:41:50 GMT 8
thanks sa mga replies. Here's a view of my HT bike community.webshots.com/album/182421643JDZJniI dont know anything on geometry..do you think this will hold? what upgrades should I focus on next. many thanks again sa mga replies mga bossing ;D
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Post by maxbuwaya on Sept 2, 2004 23:31:19 GMT 8
dude anong size ng frame mo? parang pang dirt jump na ha?
pude siguro palitan mo yang RST mo ng dual crown.
may RST na Alfalfa mga 9k yata o 7 at kings quaipo
may my batalya ba talagang guess??
Ok naman set up mo dude as long as comfortable ka at you can do whatever you like sa pagsakay
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Lance_R_evo
All-Mountain Rider
GT is Da Bomb!!!!
Posts: 176
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Post by Lance_R_evo on Sept 2, 2004 23:34:34 GMT 8
mga sirs, nung last year around june nagpunta kami ng Canada ng family ko, madami akong nakitang mga mountain bikers, mostly yung mga urban riders tsaka yung mga taong tinatawag na "Huckers"
mas marami sa kanila yung mga naka-HT na DH rigs,pero most of the brands ay di ko pa nakikita dito
karamihan ng mga full-blown hucker bikes na HT don sports triple crown forks like Manitou dorado and RS boxxers, pero Triple-crown specific yung mga frames nila, mas steeper yung head angle compared sa normal frames to accomodate the length of the forks, yun yung sabi nung isang rider na tinanong ko. tsaka mas preffered daw nila ht kasi mas bihirang masira HT kaysa sa FS na may moving parts. pagalingan na lang daw ng skills.
dun kasi pag naka-DH na HT ka, hardcore ka.
and I was even corrected by one of the riders that their bikes aren't DH bikes, but "FREERIDE" or "HUCKER" bikes.
now kung yung mga frames na nabibili dito ang gagamitin mo, ang max na magagamit mo ay upto 6" lang, kasi masyadong magbabago yung head-angle ng rig mo. unless na hahanap ka nung tulad ng ginagamit nila na triple-crown specific frames na super overbuilt.
kasi pag gumamit ka raw ng standard frame na standard cross-country yung measurement, may possibility daw na mabali yung frame mo, around the headtube, kasi pag masyadong mahaba daw yung fork mo at standard head-angled yung frame mo, parang yung frame daw ang nag-absorb ng shock at dehins na yung fork, kasi masyado nang slack yung fork.
ang rule daw ng tamang fork/frame combination ay pag tiningnan mo yung bike mo from the side, halos vertical daw dapat yung tayo ng fork, pag mas bukaka daw, or near 45 degree yung angle nung fork in relation to the frame, very dangerous daw ito, kahit daw konting patalon-talon nakaka-stress daw sa headtube.
to sir fattire:
bihira na kasi yung dual slalom sa inernational competitions, ang format nila ngayon ay four-cross (4X; 4-cross) pareho din sya ng style ng dual-slalom, pero 4 competitors na angnaglalaban.
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Post by konablack on Sept 3, 2004 6:55:46 GMT 8
Mr. Suave anong size ng tires mo? Ayos ba sa urban ang maxxis?
Thanks.
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Post by mcvarki on Sept 3, 2004 10:08:50 GMT 8
Ok mga shots ng bike mo dude, may pagka-artistic.... lalo na yung shot ng fork
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Post by trixxter on Sept 3, 2004 11:30:13 GMT 8
LANCE, Thanks sa info about HUCKING. Is FOUR CROSS same as MOUNTAIN CROSS? I seen a bike specific for MOUNTAIN CROSS called RAIL made by TURNER. It looks similar to their DOWNHILL model but with a shorter travel rear shock and fitted with long travel single crown fork.
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Post by maxbuwaya on Sept 3, 2004 21:26:10 GMT 8
sabi ni marlasinger
pohtographer iyang si señor suave. mga shots ng FIA F1 alam kong kinukuanan nyan.
Mr suave marami dito willing mag nude photo session! d ba blackmagic?
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Lance_R_evo
All-Mountain Rider
GT is Da Bomb!!!!
Posts: 176
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Post by Lance_R_evo on Sept 3, 2004 23:50:51 GMT 8
to sir Trixxter,
yup, mountain cross is the same as four-cross, It depends on what group sanctions the race, ie; NORBA calls it's version four-cross, as other groups calls it mountain cross.
specifically, 4-cross bikes have a more compact look than true-hucker bikes, they resemble a cross country bike more, since most races I've seen back then use over-built X-country frames w/ 4 inch suspension in the rear and only limits their forks to 3-inches.
once I had to see a guy there use a Nicolai - equipped HT for mountain cross, kahit yata ipalo mo sa pader yung frame nya 'di mababali sa sobrang over-built! parang sobrang bigat tignan nung frame sa laki ng box-stays at gussets!
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Post by konablack on Sept 4, 2004 14:08:07 GMT 8
sabi ni marlasinger pohtographer iyang si señor suave. mga shots ng FIA F1 alam kong kinukuanan nyan. Mr suave marami dito willing mag nude photo session! d ba blackmagic? Viewer discretion is advised... ;D
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Post by blackmagic on Sept 4, 2004 14:30:31 GMT 8
Hoy Maxvaklesh, di ako pde sa nude session noh. Strict ang payrents ko.
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Post by trixxter on Sept 4, 2004 17:41:49 GMT 8
to sir Trixxter, yup, mountain cross is the same as four-cross, It depends on what group sanctions the race, ie; NORBA calls it's version four-cross, as other groups calls it mountain cross. specifically, 4-cross bikes have a more compact look than true-hucker bikes, they resemble a cross country bike more, since most races I've seen back then use over-built X-country frames w/ 4 inch suspension in the rear and only limits their forks to 3-inches. once I had to see a guy there use a Nicolai - equipped HT for mountain cross, kahit yata ipalo mo sa pader yung frame nya 'di mababali sa sobrang over-built! parang sobrang bigat tignan nung frame sa laki ng box-stays at gussets! LANCE, Salamat sa Info uli naliwanagan ako regarding FOUR CROSS/MOUNTAIN CROSS.
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Post by MR. SUAVE on Sept 5, 2004 11:43:50 GMT 8
sir max, frame size ko? hehe...i dunno pre. have to check pa i checked with Jane sa kings and she is really nice on my fork choices. she recommends marzocchi 03 models na pro series..should I go ETA or not? re my batalya - ang alam ko may pantalon at T-shirt na guess...pero batalya ehwan pre I got it at extreme some years ago... thanks for the comments bring it on....hehe...ive never shot nude men on bikes before...hehe...any volunteers? ang daming shocks nun! haha
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Post by MR. SUAVE on Sept 5, 2004 11:48:45 GMT 8
MR. KONABLACK, 2.35 po na Maxxis highroller. Ok naman sya sa pavement..pero mabigat lang ipidal ang security nung fat tires kasi kailangan ko dahil am overweight psssh....wag mo sabihin mataba ako ha Sir Mcvarki, thats what too much beer does to you. di ko na mabitbit camera kaya sa sahig nako nag-shoot..hehe..thanks for the comments sir!
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Post by MR. SUAVE on Sept 5, 2004 11:59:20 GMT 8
sir trixxter and lance very intersting exhange of info you got. I'll look up "huckers" and see if it fits will let you guys know. thanks very much. I saw a 12-inch HT frame at Kings..replica daw yun nung freeride rig. pero di daw bagay 4 inch forks so dapat upgrade din fork...hay buhay talaga...puro gastos
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Post by konablack on Sept 7, 2004 14:11:43 GMT 8
Ano yung brakes mo? compatible pala yung mga malalaking tires sa V brakes. Any problems with these?
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Post by MR. SUAVE on Sept 7, 2004 14:33:05 GMT 8
cheapo V brakes ng shimano 201 (dunno if you've heard the model kasi I have never seen anyone riding with it).. Yes sir, Ive never had problems with tire size and brakes. pero I think this is the biggest that my frame can accomodate HTH sir.
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Post by nine-inch-neils on Sept 7, 2004 14:50:10 GMT 8
re my batalya - ang alam ko may pantalon at T-shirt na guess...pero batalya ehwan pre I got it at extreme some years ago... thanks for the comments haha I saw a frame with GUESS decals here in Cebu.... It is painted red and is made of aluminum.... Nice frame. Seat tube lenght is around 17 inches. I saw something similar in manila maybe a year ago.
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Post by MR. SUAVE on Sept 7, 2004 14:58:10 GMT 8
neilnorman, I really didnt know that the frame is 17"...maybe that's why am a bit tiptoeing when standing in the middle of the frame...sensya na am kinda slow on bike terms eh...i'm about 5'6 height...do you think I need a smaller frame? I also have one red frame na guess pero it belongs to my X-gf kaya I cant touch it...nabubulok na nga eh
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Post by gulliver on Sept 9, 2004 0:00:26 GMT 8
some suggestions lang mr suave... v-brakes for downhill? had a bad experience with that...maybe because my experience with vees were limited to that short time. so personally, you should probably go disc if downhill is going to be your specialty tiptoeing when you're standing over your frame? uh-oh, thats too close for comfort. get a smaller frame with like a 2-3 inch clearance between your jewels and your top tube. more if you plan to go rolling over really tough terrain.
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Lance_R_evo
All-Mountain Rider
GT is Da Bomb!!!!
Posts: 176
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Post by Lance_R_evo on Sept 9, 2004 11:32:56 GMT 8
a shorter frame isn't the best idea, a shorter frame will make you go over the handlebars to compensate for your pedaling( even if you aren't) and makes you prone to an endo, trust me on this........ from first hand experience ;D ;D ;D find a frame with a low top-tube, but is in your right measurements, these are more suitable for a your stand-over problem, examples are GTS & Da bomb frames which are locally available. personally, I'd go with the Da Bomb frames, since they're more oriented for hucking and freeriding, since their heavily gusseted. or get the chromoly frame
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Lance_R_evo
All-Mountain Rider
GT is Da Bomb!!!!
Posts: 176
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Post by Lance_R_evo on Sept 9, 2004 11:40:09 GMT 8
also, V-brakes for downhilling is a bad idea, since to get the right amount of modulation for you to stop, you have to crank down on the setting of the brake, and V-brakes only do one thing when put at this setting, they lock the rim, and that isn't good for you.
think of going superman over your bike while going downhill...not a pretty sight eh?
V-brakes are better used on Cross-country where weight is an issue, and for trials, where stopping on a dime is very critical.
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Post by gulliver on Sept 9, 2004 11:42:28 GMT 8
find a frame with a low top-tube, but is in your right measurements actually, thats what i meant hehehe.... and if you find the cabin too closed naman, see if a 100mm stem (max...any longer and your steering response slows noticeably), and a setback seat tube will fix the problem. if not, frame really is too short. fyi, bikes like specialized offer small and medium frames with the same standover height but with different top tube lengths problem w/ smaller hardtails, they're not as stable as long wheelbase FS bikes on more techy downhill stuff. but on not so techy stuff, they can be really fun if you're positioned properly.
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Lance_R_evo
All-Mountain Rider
GT is Da Bomb!!!!
Posts: 176
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Post by Lance_R_evo on Sept 9, 2004 12:08:47 GMT 8
sir gulliver:
magka-iba pala tayo favorite type ng frame, ako I always go for shorter rear-end (chain-stays) kasi it's easier to manouver the bike in the air, much like bmx bikes, since galing ako form the "BMX-racing" discipline before moving to MTBs, so I generally carried over my taste for frame measurements.
mali kasi akala ng mga riders na a shorter frame is easier to manouver, without thinking of the rear end.
a shorter rear end is more agile than a shorter middle part/top tube, kasi your sacrificing the correct measurements in the right area w/c is the middle part where correct body=frame measurements is critical.
the correct aspect of frame to body aspects is that the more your body is directly over the rear tire, the more easier it is to move the bike.
If you look closely at DH bike reviews, they are very critical in the seat-stay length in respect with manouverability. tapos the short stem compensates the length of the top-tube.
compensating for a short top-tube with a long stem makes your body weight positioned over the front tire, making oyu susceptible to endos again.
from my experiences lang po
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