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Post by jr on Nov 14, 2006 12:41:58 GMT 8
my first ever mtb was a HT..my second was a FS...my current bike is a HT...if i can have my way i'll have 4 MTBs..rigid SS, FS trail bike, HT XC race and a FS XC race bike..i just dont believe there is such a thing as all around/all purpose MTB. gusto ko rin pala ng road bike..mahirap talaga maging dukha ;D ;D ;D ;D..I have road bike for sale.
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Post by Ben Dover on Nov 14, 2006 13:13:08 GMT 8
jr, another thing that reminds me how dukha i am...can't even afford to buy a good bargain
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Post by arcireyes on Nov 14, 2006 13:35:54 GMT 8
i think i'll join tolits in the "dukha" sub-group trying to enjoy mt biking with a heavy HT rig (hirap mag-uphill) in view of limited choices brought about by budget constraints.
how i wish i can have a lightweight FS AM bike.
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Benj
XC Rider
My RIG
Posts: 114
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Post by Benj on Nov 14, 2006 21:50:32 GMT 8
Kuya Arci, count me in as a member of the "dukha" sub-group. hehehe!
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Post by jr on Nov 14, 2006 22:55:51 GMT 8
jr, another thing that reminds me how dukha i am...can't even afford to buy a good bargain ;D ;D ;D..are we all in the category.
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Post by jr on Nov 14, 2006 22:58:34 GMT 8
i think i'll join tolits in the "dukha" sub-group trying to enjoy mt biking with a heavy HT rig (hirap mag-uphill) in view of limited choices brought about by budget constraints. how i wish i can have a lightweight FS AM bike. Coming from a heavy bike then ride a lighter one will be a goat on climbing..if a rider started with lighter bike it becomes a weight wenies...that is a fact ;D.
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Post by gadgets88 on Nov 15, 2006 15:08:55 GMT 8
This thread is starting to sound like the photography thread: Which is better: Nikon or Canon? Film or Digital? or the walang-katapusang (everlasting) question: which came first: the chicken or the egg? P.S. Full suspension for me, my groin and my back. Thank you.
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Post by marcs on Nov 16, 2006 0:26:48 GMT 8
i bet it's the same discussion when suspension forks first came out. blah blah blah on rigids vs front sus. too heavy, unfair, etc. guess what? pretty much the standard MTB now always has front suspension.
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biotrix
Free Rider
dEiMoNiUm
Posts: 353
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Post by biotrix on Nov 16, 2006 2:35:54 GMT 8
hehhehehe hardtail forever:)
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Post by Ben Dover on Nov 16, 2006 9:35:30 GMT 8
i bet it's the same discussion when suspension forks first came out. blah blah blah on rigids vs front sus. too heavy, unfair, etc. guess what? pretty much the standard MTB now always has front suspension. how about an automatic shifter for MTB's of the future? manual or matic...hehehe! ;D
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Post by marcs on Nov 16, 2006 9:40:37 GMT 8
I think they have already right? but for commuter bikes only. I've read also about the internal gearbox (in the hub) mala CVT. Looking forward also to hydraulic shifters hehehehe. Well, we'll never know what new contraptions will come out.
Bottomline, Hardtail, Rigid, FS,single wheel, whatever . . . bahala ka what type of riding you want. But still, modern FS I think can really go faster than any other designs, on any terrain, with the same rider.
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Post by BrusKO on Nov 16, 2006 10:43:46 GMT 8
OK if that's your opinion, I'm sorry, OK? heheh biro lang. I'm for marcs'. You want proof? Ride with MountGuitars (Jon) on a trail while he uses his HT. You will hear nothing but: "Sh!t!!!!! Sana ginamit ko full sus ko!!! Sh!t talaga!!!" NO MISS- you will hear that! Peace padreng Jon!
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Post by janix on Nov 16, 2006 12:59:07 GMT 8
OK if that's your opinion, I'm sorry, OK? heheh biro lang. I'm for marcs'. You want proof? Ride with MountGuitars (Jon) on a trail while he uses his HT. You will hear nothing but: "Sh!t!!!!! Sana ginamit ko full sus ko!!! Sh!t talaga!!!" NO MISS- you will hear that! Peace padreng Jon! i really wish he brought his HT while he was in baguio. it might be fun!
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Post by anshwa on Nov 16, 2006 21:46:34 GMT 8
Jr, I'm in both sides of the fence on this topic & the answer to your two questions would be for FS bikes.
But then, Jumpers & Urban riders (myself included) would ask these two questions:
How does your body feel after a long session with a full suspension riding DJ's & urban?
How fast or high can you go during those sessions?
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Post by gilbs72 on Nov 16, 2006 22:25:44 GMT 8
Bros, is "how fast" the only benchmark for "the best" bike? How about mixing into the equation "how simple", "how easy to maintain", "how light", "how durable" (as in steel), "how affordable" (as in value for money), et cetera? Can't these also be reasons for a bike to be "better"?
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Post by jr on Nov 16, 2006 22:32:17 GMT 8
Jr, I'm in both sides of the fence on this topic & the answer to your two questions would be for FS bikes. But then, Jumpers & Urban riders (myself included) would ask these two questions: How does your body feel after a long session with a full suspension riding DJ's & urban? How fast or high can you go during those sessions? ;D ;D ;D you have a point. But before buying a bike, look what ride you are going to do. For me, since I do 100% mountain I prefer FS compare to HT.
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Post by jr on Nov 16, 2006 22:55:44 GMT 8
Bros, is "how fast" the only benchmark for "the best" bike? How about mixing into the equation "how simple", "how easy to maintain", "how light", "how durable" (as in steel), "how affordable" (as in value for money), et cetera? Can't these also be reasons for a bike to be "better"? As I mentioned FS technology are coming fast and HT is slow moving forward in the market. Most bikers using HT are racers (some slowly moving to FS) and mtb beginners. For me using FS is for comfort and confidence. I want to have fun and extra energy after the ride for family bonding. *maintenance of your bike is bonding ;D. *Lots of FS now is around 20 -27 lbs. *FS you can fine a reasonable price..
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Post by xctofi on Nov 17, 2006 0:32:21 GMT 8
My take on this,Comparing a HT to a FS is really a never ending discussion same like religion. The tech advancement is really great, it is only aimed at giving us the best and better riding experience . though these advancement comes with a price. If you can afford one (or more than 1 bike), good for you, i suggest you get one, if not,its still ok as long as you have the time and a bike to ride even if its just a beater bike.
Having both a HT and a FS is different story
If you ask me,having the time to ride outweighs this all. Even if you have or can afford the most technologically advanced,latest model blinged up bike/parts but not have the time to ride/use it then its useless.its just an expensive ornament or junk.
Riding and Rider preferrence as well as riders budget will dictate what one can/should have.
Stop the talk and get some pedalling going
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Post by Alphabolt on Nov 17, 2006 0:34:02 GMT 8
FS for those in Need, Want + can hide the cost from the better halves ! Im under the Need group...I need FS vs backpains ..spine nerve probs But whatever bike I use FS or HT...what matters is I try not to quit pushing myself I dont think there is really such a thing as pushing the bike's limits in XC and All Mountain..baka limitation of the biker kamo
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Post by extraFunky on Nov 17, 2006 3:29:36 GMT 8
What makes a FS faster than a HT? I don't get it. Unless you're catching big air, I don't really see any advantage of a rear suspension. On rocky descents, a good front suspension is all you need. If your back is hurting, it's probably more of a fit issue.
I don't have a HT but I have a full rigid bike which is what I mostly ride. I also have a full squishy (Blur XC), gathering dust in my garage.
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Post by anshwa on Nov 17, 2006 4:17:15 GMT 8
What makes a FS faster than a HT? I don't get it. Unless you're catching big air, I don't really see any advantage of a rear suspension. On rocky descents, a good front suspension is all you need. If your back is hurting, it's probably more of a fit issue. I don't have a HT but I have a full rigid bike which is what I mostly ride. I also have a full squishy (Blur XC), gathering dust in my garage. I disagree. A full suspension bike is going to be faster especially on rocky descents compared to a hardtail. A full sus would track better & would not have the rear chattering AS COMPARED to a hardtail. I rode trails & DH w/ an FS & an HT. The FS is faster. But in XC races, it's a whole new different story for some reason.
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Post by extraFunky on Nov 17, 2006 4:53:46 GMT 8
I disagree. A full suspension bike is going to be faster especially on rocky descents compared to a hardtail. A full sus would track better & would not have the rear chattering AS COMPARED to a hardtail. I rode trails & DH w/ an FS & an HT. The FS is faster. But in XC races, it's a whole new different story for some reason. Rear wheel tracking is affected by wheelbase and your fork's trail not by the rear shock, no? Besides, tracking is only a problem on slow speed turns like on tight switchbacks when you actually turn/steer the handlebar. On fast cornering, you just lean the bike.
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Post by anshwa on Nov 17, 2006 6:02:22 GMT 8
Rear wheel tracking is affected by wheelbase and your fork's trail not by the rear shock, no? Besides, tracking is only a problem on slow speed turns like on tight switchbacks when you actually turn/steer the handlebar. On fast cornering, you just lean the bike. Rear suspension gives more traction on the rear wheel - among other things. While tracking is also affected by wheelbase & your front wheel, it is also affected by rear suspension which is why I mentioned chattering of the rear wheel as compared to a hardtail. This is one of the reasons why engineers try to manipulate suspension designs to make an ideal rear suspension path to keep the rear wheel planted on the ground & track better. A hardtail would definitely pedal better on a smooth trail. But the moment it becomes rough, suspension provides a lot more traction even when pedalling (provided you have an effecient FS design). Finally, on the contrary, tracking becomes even more of a problem when you're going fast through the rough sections. No question if the trail is buffed, but the moment it's rough & rocky, it's FS all the way. No offense meant here. Typed w/ all due respect.
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Post by jr on Nov 17, 2006 6:07:37 GMT 8
What makes a FS faster than a HT? I don't get it. Unless you're catching big air, I don't really see any advantage of a rear suspension. On rocky descents, a good front suspension is all you need. If your back is hurting, it's probably more of a fit issue. I don't have a HT but I have a full rigid bike which is what I mostly ride. I also have a full squishy (Blur XC), gathering dust in my garage. ;D ;D ;D ;D..question is why downhiller use FS rather than HT. Did you ever feel the difference on fast descent on rocky and rutty section between HT and FS? Which is a better handling? I think I'm fit, using FS for long ride my back is way better that HT. Again...this is vary to riding style and influence to your group. BTW. you still have that green classic blur? You didnt sold yet?
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Post by extraFunky on Nov 17, 2006 6:20:34 GMT 8
I think I'm fit, using FS for long ride my back is way better that HT. I bet you are. hehehe ;D. By fit I mean, the bike is too big/small, or the saddle/bars are not properly positioned. BTW. you still have that green classic blur? You didnt sold yet? Yup, I still have it. Misis wants me to keep it. How can I refuse? ;D
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Post by jr on Nov 17, 2006 6:34:37 GMT 8
Yup, I still have it. Misis wants me to keep it. How can I refuse? ;D Oooh ..she having a bad intension. ;D ;D.
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Post by allegra on Nov 17, 2006 8:13:49 GMT 8
How about a full sus roadbike ? A buddy of mine has the softail TT bike , dont know if theres a difference in peformance but the bike is a showstopper
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Post by anshwa on Nov 18, 2006 1:40:47 GMT 8
Allegra, I think w/ a roadbike, rigid would still be best. You need every ounce of effort on pavement.
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Post by Alphabolt on Nov 20, 2006 1:08:35 GMT 8
Rear wheel tracking is affected by wheelbase and your fork's trail not by the rear shock, no? Besides, tracking is only a problem on slow speed turns like on tight switchbacks when you actually turn/steer the handlebar. On fast cornering, you just lean the bike. Rear suspension gives more traction on the rear wheel - among other things. While tracking is also affected by wheelbase & your front wheel, it is also affected by rear suspension which is why I mentioned chattering of the rear wheel as compared to a hardtail. This is one of the reasons why engineers try to manipulate suspension designs to make an ideal rear suspension path to keep the rear wheel planted on the ground & track better. A hardtail would definitely pedal better on a smooth trail. But the moment it becomes rough, suspension provides a lot more traction even when pedalling (provided you have an effecient FS design). Finally, on the contrary, tracking becomes even more of a problem when you're going fast through the rough sections. No question if the trail is buffed, but the moment it's rough & rocky, it's FS all the way. No offense meant here. Typed w/ all due respect. I fully agree. cant beat an FS when its a fast and technical AM or DH trail fit body issue...unfit (sige na nga) fat body bikers can bury HT fit-body riders over loose, rocky or ruts-galore trails I ve only seen few really good HT riders who smoked FS riders...they used Front suspension forks of course There s Paolo "Mr Tan / formerly endoboy" whom I met at his first MTB DH race "Fat din Kami"...the dude smoked all of the beginners and most of the novice back then
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lloyd
Free Rider
Posts: 376
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Post by lloyd on Nov 20, 2006 9:24:52 GMT 8
Before, I used to have a HT for trails and freeride. I can still maintain my speed on rock garden using my HT. Max drop that I made on it was approx 6 ft to tranny.
Currently, I used FS for trail, Dj, freeride & downhill racing. By the way, the No. 1 HT Novice category rider (Polky Yu) here in cebu has a lesser time compared to us - his FS Novice counter parts. Basing on this, i think the main factor is the rider and the type of trail/race track that the rider is in.
If you go big time (big drops... multiple big drops)... I strongly suggest, you'll go FS.
For XC naman, it all depends on the FS suspension design and the technology of the rear suspension used on the frame - to eliminate bobbing during the climb. Good XC FS functions as much as a HT during the uphill... But pro-XC racers, I think they opt to use more a HT rig during the race.
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