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Post by king on Mar 21, 2008 18:10:44 GMT 8
Designed in conjunction with FOX, Shimano has developed a new 15mm Thru axle system. Aimed at the XC/AM/Enduro athletes, the new system aims to bring some of the joy of a solid thru-axle to the dated front 9mm quick release system. Expect to see other fork/hub manufactures on board with this E-Thru 15mm system. The E-Thru system like a convetional 9mm quick relase uses 100mm OLD spacing. Shimano says that it is 15% stiffer torsionally, and 25% stiffer in transverse shear when compared to a traditional quick release system. This new system also doesn’t add much weight (upto ~20g) and in some cases is lighter by over 20g in a comparable qr setup. This will only be a good thing provided enough manufacturers get on board as it will bring some of the stiffness of a thru axle to the AM/XC/Enduro market that they’re missing out on. Its not only a safer system, but will increase the confidence of the 4x/AM/XC/Enduro rider if they’re not already running a 20mm axle. Marzocchi 15mm e-thru Fork “Marzocchi will present a new fork on the 4th of April. It will be available in a 15mm thru axle version, or made for regular quick release hubs. The fork can be used with 140, 120 or 100mm travel, it is also available with the ATA system for adjustable travel (140-100mm).”
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Post by mountguitars on Mar 21, 2008 19:12:25 GMT 8
nice post king. its nice to know that their making progress with the new system. the last pic looks like an XC fork due to its lock out, i think. this is the future. been dreaming about making XC forks stiffer. and its good to know that they've worked on it na pala, hehe. ;D. hmmm.....i hope rockshox makes their own asap! coz i sure wont use a marzochhi on an XC bike, hehehe ;D and fox is out of reach ;D.
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Post by Ben Dover on Mar 21, 2008 19:18:38 GMT 8
i've seen broken forks, broken frames etc...but has anyone here actually broke a 9mm axle before on doing just xc stuff?
btw, just 20 grams? does it includes the weight of additional material on the fork? if not, then that could be misleading.
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Post by mountguitars on Mar 21, 2008 19:24:51 GMT 8
i've seen broken forks, broken frames etc...but has anyone here actually broke a 9mm axle before? yo tolits! the new system will make the fork stiffer for better handling, not actually make it more durable. but to answer your question, i havent seen one. ;D
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Post by Ben Dover on Mar 21, 2008 19:57:29 GMT 8
jon, i think thats questionable btw, what the heck is torsional stiffness? traverse shear? (hey bongjumper we need you here ) am not really sure how it works ha but i'm presuming that the percentage increases are based on 9mm which represents the 100%..right? ain't it correct that you will only benefit from those figures (15%,25%) if you already exceeded the 100% capacity of 9mm? now my question is..is there a data that will show how much percentage of stress we are regularly putting on these hubs based on 100% of 9mm? percentage to even affect the handling? ok, here comes my skepticism again hehe ;D
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Post by mountguitars on Mar 23, 2008 12:50:04 GMT 8
jon, i think thats questionable btw, what the heck is torsional stiffness? traverse shear? (hey bongjumper we need you here ) am not really sure how it works ha but i'm presuming that the percentage increases are based on 9mm which represents the 100%..right? ain't it correct that you will only benefit from those figures (15%,25%) if you already exceeded the 100% capacity of 9mm? now my question is..is there a data that will show how much percentage of stress we are regularly putting on these hubs based on 100% of 9mm? percentage to even affect the handling? ok, here comes my skepticism again hehe ;D i honestly cant explain but it does mean that steering will be more precise (specially during those tight corners and rutts where you wouldnt want your fork to flex) and the design of the drop out makes bump absorption more effective by feeding the bumps directly to the suspension of the fork and not through flexing. let's put it this way, there's 2 ways to absorb bumps: flex or absorb. flex is what were trying to avoid. we want to absorb it via the suspension mechanism of the fork. and when this happens, we get predictable, confidence-inspired handling so we get to take on more radical obstacles, hehe ;D .
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Post by flipnidaho on Mar 23, 2008 21:55:28 GMT 8
I have no experience with the new 15mm TA but my experience with the 20mm TA versus QR (mind you, that I rode QR bikes for 20 years before trying TA and I was a HUGE 20mm TA skeptic) is that on forks that have 130mm or more travel, and is ridden very aggressively (fast and big), the stiffness benefits of a TA wheel/for is absolutely noticeable. You notice it most when carving turns at speed, through rock gardens at speed or picking your way slowly through a techie section, tight slow speed corners and out of the saddle climbing.... I'm such a believer on the TA system now that I'm thinking of putting on the RWS system on my rear hub. Of course, I would only do this on my big bike... The other bikes are perfectly fine with the QR system. However, given the choice of a 15mm TA system or a QR system on my next bike with no weight penalty, I'd go with the TA. However, I wouldn't convert my QR bikes to the new system because the cost/benefit isn't great enough...
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Post by king on Apr 22, 2008 8:57:41 GMT 8
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Post by mountguitars on Apr 22, 2008 12:31:42 GMT 8
its a fox! come on rockshox. cant afford a fox eh, hehehe ;D.
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Post by kikoreta on Apr 27, 2008 10:55:08 GMT 8
The new 15mm uses the same system as the RS maxle light. The RS is already compatible with most aftermarket hubs out there. While now with the Shimano system we are stuck with Shimano right now. With the RS system we are stuck with one fork maker naman. So now we choose. RS fork or Shimano hub?
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Post by flipnidaho on Apr 27, 2008 12:19:12 GMT 8
Shimano makes 20mm TA hubs so there are already RS ready Shimano hubs out there... The new 15mm uses the same system as the RS maxle light. The RS is already compatible with most aftermarket hubs out there. While now with the Shimano system we are stuck with Shimano right now. With the RS system we are stuck with one fork maker naman. So now we choose. RS fork or Shimano hub?
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Post by OnebyOne on Apr 28, 2008 17:25:59 GMT 8
These manufacturers are killing each other with us the riders/users are the ultimate victims Sorry po a bit OT here
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Post by flipnidaho on Apr 28, 2008 21:08:21 GMT 8
These manufacturers are killing each other with us the riders/users are the ultimate victims Sorry po a bit OT here you're only a victim if you have the condition called "upgradeitis". unfortunately, i get this disease frequently...
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lloyd
Free Rider
Posts: 376
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Post by lloyd on Apr 28, 2008 23:45:52 GMT 8
These manufacturers are killing each other with us the riders/users are the ultimate victims Sorry po a bit OT here you're only a victim if you have the condition called "upgradeitis". unfortunately, i get this disease frequently... Very well said! . Ride Hard and Ride Safe...
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Post by OnebyOne on Apr 29, 2008 9:07:58 GMT 8
I got this disease cured few months ago too but it seems it's all coming back ;D
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Post by kikoreta on May 15, 2008 14:33:57 GMT 8
09 Fox Forks are already out. 15mm forks included. haven't heard of the hubs being out tho!
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goyoyl
All-Mountain Rider
Posts: 161
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Post by goyoyl on May 15, 2008 20:02:11 GMT 8
You can get 15mm Industry Nine hubsets... And you can easily convert the hubs to make it accept 20mm TA, or even use quick release skewers... So you don't have to buy different hubs for different forks..
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Post by anshwa on May 15, 2008 21:30:47 GMT 8
I think the 20mm TA is already enough. That's the one thing I hate about mountainbiking. There is too much "innovation". They've got to finally standardize our components . A couple of weeks ago, I was helping out one of the neighborhood kids install his brand new fork on his bmx bike. BMX forks are pretty much standardized from the drop out spacing to the steerer tube. All you need to do is install it w/o cutting the steerer.
"Innovations" like this 15mm TA just makes it harder for riders to get aftermarket parts when they break their existing ones. As if we don't have enough specs to worry about as far as building or replacing our bikes' parts.
Sorry kind'a OT...
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Post by anthony on May 15, 2008 21:36:48 GMT 8
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Post by eatsrocksnmud on May 16, 2008 11:46:38 GMT 8
You can get 15mm Industry Nine hubsets... And you can easily convert the hubs to make it accept 20mm TA, or even use quick release skewers... So you don't have to buy different hubs for different forks interchangeability and convertibility, old but practical solutions. but the price of I-9s? on the other hand, I-9s are warrantied so it may just be worth the cost. this is a question for the manufacturers: why not just lighten the 20mm thru-axle front hub? i believe it can be done without sacrificing much structural strength. on the economic side, they need to sell a new product made for an intended market niche or sub-niche in between XC and AM. Marzocchi used to have an "intended usage" classification called AXC or aggressive cross-country (circa 2003) but no specific product for said usage, maybe this is a revival of that concept there are those who ride hard and hardly clean their bikes. i would classify them as A-XC&M: Abusive cross-country and mountain. i wonder what product would stand up to this form of usage
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Post by anshwa on May 16, 2008 19:19:38 GMT 8
interchangeability and convertibility, old but practical solutions. but the price of I-9s? on the other hand, I-9s are warrantied so it may just be worth the cost. this is a question for the manufacturers: why not just lighten the 20mm thru-axle front hub? i believe it can be done without sacrificing much structural strength. on the economic side, they need to sell a new product made for an intended market niche or sub-niche in between XC and AM. Marzocchi used to have an "intended usage" classification called AXC or aggressive cross-country (circa 2003) but no specific product for said usage, maybe this is a revival of that concept Bull's eye! 20 vs 15, is there really a difference? Lighten the 20 & you have an XC TA. I guess that's business for yah...
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Post by goldkitten on May 20, 2008 20:05:16 GMT 8
just come to think of it, we are a mere guineepig, manufacturer tends to fool us on using different sizes of axle in particular, would there be big difference in weight per performance for comparing the 20mm vs 15mm, would you loose the race using the 20mm and winning on using 15mm, i think personaly that weight difference is very much negligeble...
manufacturer of this innovation as they may call it will just suffer our wallet to upgrade or downgrade our bike setup, i for myself can't afford those expensive upgrades, im just a practical rider/racer, though on some point i could save up some juices to afford a specific expensive parts for my intended uses but i won't just change some parts because of call of upgrade thing...
just my two cents guys c",? Ride Safe Always...
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