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Post by bongjumper on Feb 18, 2008 16:42:27 GMT 8
Will wait for the result of your experiment... But I know, the bearing is totally different with the JockX...
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Post by Taba® on Feb 20, 2008 17:38:38 GMT 8
I can actually install it on the "upper part" of the RD (XTR 2007) but can't install on the lower part of the RD because there is this "bended" part on XTR 2007 RD's face plate. The pulley itself is touching the "bended" part on my XTR 2007. I will do an experiment this weekend and we'll see what happens.
Maybe, the pulleys are not yet designed for XTR 2007's?. Adjustments like "bending" the face plate of the RD should not be the case but since I noticed that my XTR RD (which is overused) has a crack at the so called "bended" part, I will do some "butingting" and we'll see...any comments will contribute to the improvement of this product...kudos to bongjumper!
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Post by enzo on Feb 20, 2008 19:30:42 GMT 8
So far, from my scrutiny, this product is a good aftermarket replacement for jockeys wheels from XT down to the cheapest RD you can buy. The machining is good if not to the last micron or measurement. The colored plate is pressed on cage making stable and eliminating excessive play or flexing. Unlike with the shimano plastic ones which is tapered and using small bearings or rests on the screws as pivots thus giving it room for flex. There is a good thing with the tapering of the plastic pulleys but will talk about that later. I see how good SRAM by resting or using the outer cage itself, pressing a larger area to the left cage( Looking from behind) making it flex free. same as with the JockX. The colored plate covers the whole bearing housing and shielding it from the elements. I dont see any mud or grease going inside. The bearings are industry grade sealed ones and we dont need to use high grade or high ABEC rating here, but its good and spins smoothly. Now here comes the downside, It's not compatible with XO and Shadow XTR The left cage of the XO have that round protruding area where the Sram Jockey rests. The JockX wont fit in, one side fits and spin with a little drag, the other is tight. I could have painstakingly filed that small ridge to make it spin freely but, again the bearings are unlike the SRam's. the hole of t each are different. XO's have small holes, JockX have big holes or center. It doesnt have or the shaft that you need to put to make it spin should be the same diameter as the hole of the bearings. I tried again to swap bearings but the XO's bearing are slightly smaller. Tried putting washers to press them inside but made them spin with some drag. Close to filing the carbon protrusion on the cage, I just let it go and said to myself aftermarket replacement should be installed in a snap without any hassles or DIY's. As with the Shadow, the same left cage bends at the end to partially cover that side of the lower pulley. Again, Shadows jockeys are tapered and thinner. It.s not for shadow unless you file or grind that part which I wont suggest. Have you all noticed everytime you clean your RD and where the old grease and mud accumulate? Yeah! just below the teeth. right where they were pressed, diverted by the chain. They wont go down lower than the bearing housing unless you do river or mud dippings. Always there just below. This spells trouble for the JockX cos the hole around or below the teeth of these pulleys are the line of fire or scene of action, potential place for mud and old grease to accumulate and grind both your chain and the pulley itself. Another thing, it will be pushed to the ridges where the colored plate is pressed. That small hairline slit with tiny hole inside. Another place for dirts and grease to grind it way through. But the colored plate pressed against or no movement will help in a way that even if lots of possible mud that you can think of that will cling there wont stop it from spinning. It's pressed solid to the cage. Good point really. No wonder KCNC made their jockeys minimalist for less space for mud to cling, and the obvious of course, weight weeniesm. If you have High end RDs, go fror the KCNC, Anything lower than these two I mentioned, go for the JockX. It's good and it adds a little consistency to the transfer of chain to the cogs. And a little blingy too! Guys who dont know them will have second look and will take away your mind from saying " it's just an Acera or an XT or An LX" Coz let's admit it, Metal just have that special bond or appeal to us men. You just have to religiously clean that part after each ride or before going for another ride. No tomrrow I will do it, do it every time you clean or wash your bike. I for one skip on cleaning it coz I ran out of toothbrush or just plain lazy. But it isnt how we should take care of our bikes? all through out. Good product can you make one for XO and Shadow? All my mates have em And I cant install mine. ;D
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Post by bigboyenrile on Feb 20, 2008 19:51:01 GMT 8
anybody here tried this device on a 08 XT shadow mid cage??
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Post by enzo on Feb 20, 2008 19:58:09 GMT 8
anybody here tried this device on a 08 XT shadow mid cage?? brad, Dranrev have installed his a couple of days ago.
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Post by g.b.b on Feb 20, 2008 21:00:09 GMT 8
i've tried it in XT shadow....it's fits....
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Post by shuzzs on Feb 20, 2008 21:28:01 GMT 8
I think Bong already had discussed the issue about the "bend" at the tension pulley (lower wheel).
For shimano derailleurs, as what jessie and enzo have described, there is a bend at the end of the cage. This bend supposedly removes dirt as it accumulates on the tension pulley. The BJ Jockey wheel cannot be installed unless you remove or straighten the "bend".
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Post by mountguitars on Feb 20, 2008 22:13:45 GMT 8
I think Bong already had discussed the issue about the "bend" at the tension pulley (lower wheel). For shimano derailleurs, as what jessie and enzo have described, there is a bend at the end of the cage. This bend supposedly removes dirt as it accumulates on the tension pulley. The BJ Jockey wheel cannot be installed unless you remove or straighten the "bend". or maybe use a sandpaper to file it. i did this on my deore, hehe. ;D
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Post by enzo on Feb 21, 2008 0:47:49 GMT 8
I think Bong already had discussed the issue about the "bend" at the tension pulley (lower wheel). For shimano derailleurs, as what jessie and enzo have described, there is a bend at the end of the cage. This bend supposedly removes dirt as it accumulates on the tension pulley. The BJ Jockey wheel cannot be installed unless you remove or straighten the "bend". I wouldnt suggest that on a 6k pesos RD. Sayang. It has a purpose so let it stay there. I dont know with Jessie coz he's got KCNC and that cage is carbon alread. Bending will result in breakage. I can alter or modify it, but maybe Bong will produce something or design one specially for XO or Shadow.
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Post by bongjumper on Feb 21, 2008 9:54:26 GMT 8
Thanks Enzo for your Review... This is what I want from my engineers working with me in the project. A constructive Design Failure Mode Engineering Analysis for further design improvement. All your inputs is taken... The outer dimension of all the pulleys if it is 11 teeth is all the same in Shimano, campagnolo and SRAM. The only difference is the thickness. Does very hard to create a thickness standard that will be compatible to all this RD. And producing a specific pulleys for every brand of RD will be very expensive. Anyway, I will study again the compatibility issues for the X0 and Shadow... Since, I did not encounter problem when I installed the JockX with X0 and shadow during my prototyping... Based on the engineering design analysis for the "bend" in the lower portion of the shimano RD. Shimano RD use the same wheels for Jockey and tension pulleys, which have side to side movement. This bending is to minimize this side to side movements and act as a chain guide. Since the JockX is fix and no side to side movement. This bending is no more use and can be removed... SRAM RD don't have this bending... Thanks Jess, please post the result of your experiment...
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Post by Taba® on Feb 21, 2008 13:28:17 GMT 8
Idol,
Why not produce a lightweight face plate without a bend for XT, XTR and SRAMS? I'll be your first customer...
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Post by bongjumper on Feb 21, 2008 13:37:39 GMT 8
Idol, Why not produce a lightweight face plate without a bend for XT, XTR and SRAMS? I'll be your first customer... Nice Idea? Same thing I'm doing when I'm still playing RC... When I need a parts can not buy in the hobby shop... But If do this for you... Shipment will be very expensive again... Maybe a local machine shop in your area can do it for you.
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Post by enzo on Feb 21, 2008 13:48:26 GMT 8
Idol, Why not produce a lightweight face plate without a bend for XT, XTR and SRAMS? I'll be your first customer... Nice Idea? Same thing I'm doing when I'm still playing RC... When I need a parts can not buy in the hobby shop... But If do this for you... Shipment will be very expensive again... Maybe a local machine shop in your area can do it for you. I have some carbon fiber poles and sheet from old projects and the boom for the Softride tri bike which can be modified and fabricated to almost anything. I just dont have the time yet. I made a cover for my marta sl reservoir from it. The machine shops here are @#$%, they dont want to accept small jobs and the machinist are from other countries. Hard to explain what you want them to do and will even ask you why you will change it.
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Post by bongjumper on Feb 21, 2008 14:12:43 GMT 8
Communication problem again... This is my problem here in China before... If "no read, no right" can not find a descent job... me" no read, no right, no speak" so my job is to learn how to communicate ... ;D ;D ;D Let me see if I can do some carbon face plate for your RD... this is very easy compare to the machining of the jockeys...
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Post by bongjumper on Feb 21, 2008 15:26:30 GMT 8
Hi Enzo, Based on the specification comparison: SRAM XO jockey wheelsNumber of teeth : 11 Thickness of the pulleys: 8.6mm +/-0.1mm Hole Diameter: 6.0mm +/- 0.1mm JockX Pulleys:Number of teeth : 11 Thickness of the pulley: 8.8mm +/- 0.1mm Hole Diameter: 6.0 -0/+0.1mm Other than the thickness difference of 0.2mm, the JockX can be installed in the X0 RD...
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Post by enzo on Feb 21, 2008 15:35:53 GMT 8
Hi Enzo, Based on the specification comparison: SRAM XO jockey wheelsNumber of teeth : 11 Thickness of the pulleys: 8.6mm +/-0.1mm Hole Diameter: 6.0mm +/- 0.1mm JockX Pulleys:Number of teeth : 11 Thickness of the pulley: 8.8mm +/- 0.1mm Hole Diameter: 6.0 -0/+0.1mm Other than the thickness difference of 0.2mm, the JockX can be installed in the X0 RD... Bong, I'll post the pics later. the mounting of the XO is different and the bearings are different. its like they will only rest or spin on the plate or cage protrusion than on the screws itself. The numbers or measurements are perfect and doesnt interefere with the chain, it's that mounting on the side of the left cage and the bearings. Will download pics tonight. Dont worry Bong, We need minimal adjustment or different bearing diameter only.
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Post by bongjumper on Feb 21, 2008 15:42:58 GMT 8
OK, I will wait for the pictures. Might need to consider the design on the left side to make it perfectly compatible to X0 carbon..
Thanks...
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Post by enzo on Feb 26, 2008 23:32:20 GMT 8
Different bearing sizes Different inner diameter of bearing and the groove where the protrusion of the cage goes into, only this pulley fits and spins smoothly. Different cover too but the sealing of the Jockx is better Screw serves as axle for the bearing to rollm on, JockX presses the covers against the bearing and spins smoothly, acts as axle Protrsion on the cage other side or main cage same bearing will sit snugly loose Not fit stacks of spacers, I have to mix and match diff. spacers but made one complete spacer. Lots of filing was done. covered Voila!! nice sight bling I managed to fit only the lower pulley as shown here, filing or taking that embossed/ protruding circle is possible and easy but it serves the same purpose as with that plate pressing thing with your pulley. Might result in unnecessary movement or play. Some photo essay to show the differences and the solution.
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Post by bongjumper on Feb 27, 2008 10:19:14 GMT 8
Thanks Enzo... for a very clear documentation of the problem... Now I fully understand the problem, the bearing cover is included in the cage that's why it is not a direct substitution. We will put this case in the drawing board again... Let me see how can we make the compatibility of the JockX to X0 carbon cage... because we already try it in X0 Aluminum cage and there is no problem. I did not consider that the high end RD will also needed the jockX...
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Post by enzo on Feb 27, 2008 11:36:33 GMT 8
Your welcome Bong, Notice how it looks now with the shiny pulleys It's possible to replace the upper pulley by just filing the extended/protruding side. Since it's not that much visible, I'll keep it that way. I replaced the 3 washers with a one piece alloy one. Another thing, Iwas lucky the groove fits, because the colored cover of the jockX is not supposed to be taken out. That's why I said the the machining is not good, other pulley I have wont even sit or spin, another one spins halfway only. Part of the XO extended part is not smooth already or perfectly round. This is a good replacement once it worsen and attracts and accumulate dirt. My mistake on that one And there is that distinct sound of the chain and pulley, like a whirr or a purr, much like the sound of a Porshe on idle. Why would you deny XO users some bling Sorry for the late reply and posting
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Post by pazigrider on Feb 27, 2008 11:41:39 GMT 8
i've tried bong's JockX wheels on my new sram x9s last sat at maarat and all i can say is that shifting is really fast and crisp so for me - sram x9 with bong's JockX wheels are truly a great buy ;D ;D so guys - get your JockX wheels now so you could try it out for your self and feel the big difference bong - commission ko ;D ;D
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Mountain Goatee
XC Rider
Hey, handsome. Nice chamois! *wink-wink*
Posts: 100
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Post by Mountain Goatee on Feb 27, 2008 13:20:21 GMT 8
S'Bong,
I hope you get to solve Enzo's issue ASAP (eheheh!) because it's the same with SRAM short cages. And I want might installed on both pulleys!
Haayy! I guess some of us will still have to wait and drool while others are already rocking with your JockX.
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Post by enzo on Feb 27, 2008 13:30:27 GMT 8
S'Bong, I hope you get to solve Enzo's issue ASAP (eheheh!) because it's the same with SRAM short cages. And I want might installed on both pulleys! Haayy! I guess some of us will still have to wait and drool while others are already rocking with your JockX. Marvin??? or I forgot your name na talaga. Fixed and running smoothly na. The pulleys are not for XO with carbon cages as shown here, A little bit tricky which can be solved with some mnor modification. 3 spacers/washers is all you need if you have the same RD as mine. Or file away that round thing, but be careful not to verdo it coz it will sit deeper and rubs with the plate. bring it to Boyet, a very simple job for those who are adept with tools. Catasthropic to normal guys. but for now Peace ;D
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Mountain Goatee
XC Rider
Hey, handsome. Nice chamois! *wink-wink*
Posts: 100
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Post by Mountain Goatee on Feb 27, 2008 15:15:05 GMT 8
It's Wayne sir.
Right now, I'm not too confident about modifying the thing. As much as possible, I want to keep it as is, so the next time I buy the same model (In case I crash and trash it) I will never again face the fear of modifying the new one. Haaaayyy! No guts no JWheel talaga for me I guess!
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Post by enzo on Feb 27, 2008 15:19:31 GMT 8
It's Wayne sir. Right now, I'm not too confident about modifying the thing. As much as possible, I want to keep it as is, so the next time I buy the same model (In case I crash and trash it) I will never again face the fear of modifying the new one. Haaaayyy! No guts no JWheel talaga for me I guess! Wayne!!! and Malvin is the other guy we rode with, sorry! Ihope you dont crash on your knee again. Buy a mid cage X9 and it will fit perfectly.
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Post by bongjumper on Feb 27, 2008 16:42:26 GMT 8
I like the effect of the JockX with the XO... Black and gold give a perfect color combination... Hi Roel, Good to know you are also a user now of the jockey wheels. We can talk about your commission in BS in Makati... Hi Mountain Goatee, Sorry... for now, JockX can not be use for X0, except Enzo who make his own modification... But if I find the best way.... I will let you know...
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Mountain Goatee
XC Rider
Hey, handsome. Nice chamois! *wink-wink*
Posts: 100
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Post by Mountain Goatee on Feb 27, 2008 17:10:01 GMT 8
Thanks S'Bong!
I live a few blocks away from BS (*wink-wink*, eheheh!). Good to see posts from Mr. Suave again!
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Post by bongjumper on Feb 28, 2008 10:19:53 GMT 8
Your welcome Mountain Goatee... Our location is very near, I will PM you pag nasa Makati ako...
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Post by Ben Dover on Feb 28, 2008 12:17:04 GMT 8
i finally had the chance to test the jockx in bataan lakbay 44...unfortunately, i have no way of comparing its performance against the stock pulley since bong installed it immediately on my newly bought 08 XT RD..but comparing it against my older XT when it was new, i would say its a big improvement. i experienced some problems though mid of the ride...its a bit long portion of the trail with lots of bushes...a stick/broken branch went through the spokes of my rear wheel and snagged my RD (actually it happened 3x)...after that the shifting just went crazy...being a bit poor in the mechanical analysis area, i just let it and gone on with the ride...surprisingly, as if some kind of my magic, shifting went ok again near the end of the ride. ;D i'll post again after the brgy bato ride this coming weekend.
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Post by bongjumper on Feb 29, 2008 9:02:00 GMT 8
Thanks Ben Dover for you review... It's really a magic, Since it is not designed as self repair... ;D maybe there is some, piece of wood inserted in your RD... just a guess... Waiting for your further review...
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