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Post by bertongputik on Oct 5, 2007 22:10:04 GMT 8
sir Pjax i agree with sir grnhrnt adding a little air on your triad would make a difference. i'm 76 kilos but my triad was loaded about 200 psi which actually dont bob in the propedal position while climbing, and sprint like others can do with out locking it and also plushy in the downhill with open position.
on the brain shock issues, before hitting the rear wheel of the said square edge thing u will hit it first by your front tire which it will activate the brass mass inside of the brain shocks for the preperation for the rear wheel to play unless you bike backwards.
specialized also doesn't say "VERTICAL AXLE PATH" but "NEAR VERTICAL AXLE PATH" i've seen it in their 2005 catalog
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Post by pjax on Oct 7, 2007 1:07:03 GMT 8
i just set my shock to the proper sag. i don't get the 120mm i paid for if i put in any more air. i'd settle for plushness over efficiency (lakasan na lang ang padyak). but the fact remains: the bike should not make me sacrifice efficiency over plushness ABOUT THE BRAIN: i've thought about that too. but what if you are going slow through technical terrain? imagine running up a sidewalk, stopping briefly before the rear wheel hits, and then finally getting the rear wheel over. that'd stop the brass mass from activating AXLE PATH: ok, it's NOT EVEN NEAR vertical axle path it's more of forward axle path. just look at this linkage snapshot of the 2007 Stumpjumper axle path against Giant Trance's which is more vertcal hmmm? trust me. there are more non-FSR bikes with a near vertical axle path. it's the reason they stopped saying that anymore in their advertisements.
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Post by Darth Paul on Oct 7, 2007 8:38:34 GMT 8
Hey guys, Thanks for the fantastic discussion! Kudos specially to Sir PJax for the in-depth research and the very informative review and comments. Not only an actual usage review (free from marketing hype and a business agenda!) but also a very well researched and scientific discussion on the different suspension models as well. I would give Sir PJax and other contributors here karma points if only I knew how, so instead let me just say... Bravo!
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Post by pjax on Oct 7, 2007 20:38:28 GMT 8
you click the "exalt" link on the left side of this page, next to the avatar... not than i'm asking for one
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Post by pjax on Oct 7, 2007 22:06:02 GMT 8
Given your knowledge and expertise on this subject, just cant help but ask for your opinion regarding a different suspension system that is out in the world market (although I havent seen anyone using it locally yet) that claims to be both bob free and bump compliant without any dependence on a shock with SPV features. This is Felt Bicycle's patented Equilink system in their Virtue 1-4 line of XC/trailbike models. i've seen that video before. it got me real curious i think it can still bob and other what not, IF they get it wrong here goes he said that "everytime you peda the bicycle, you basically try and pull the rear wheel towards the bottom bracket", which activates the lower link which activates the "equilink" what pulls the rear wheel towards the bottom bracket? chain forces i think the best way to asses their claims is to try out the bike, turn off the platform option, hop on the bike AND MASH HARD. this is my mistake when i got my stumpjumper. MASH HARD and see if it bobs. try all drivetrain configurations. it's a simple test you can do before you buy the bike in all aspects, the bike COULD do what it claims, if the chain torque does equal the squat. i'll be looking forward to test your Felt if you would allow me ;D
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Post by bertongputik on Oct 7, 2007 22:52:30 GMT 8
sir pjax the software linkage is awesome...... comparing to the snapshot, assuming that the stumpy and the trance have the same rear wheel travel, 80mm. the parabolic height of the stumpy is about -2.something and the trance is about -3.something..... ABOUT THE BRAIN: yes sir, probably the brass mass wont activate, but when you're on technical terrain and assuming that your speed is about 15kmh even a DH bike will still feel the bump since side walks are about 8 to 10 inches tall. ABOUT THE FSR TECH. yes sir pjax, FSR wont guarantee isolation from pedal forces and maximum pedal effiency because SPECZ said that FSR is FULLY ACTIVE, FULLY INDEPENDENT,FULLY PROVEN (FSR is responsive enough for the small bumps robust enough to suck up the big hits whether you're pedaling or not, braking or not, seated or standing, FSR four-bar linkage is truly active at all time) thats the reason why they introduce the shocks with platform.
just my 2 cents......
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Post by pjax on Oct 8, 2007 0:53:01 GMT 8
ABOUT THE FSR TECH. yes sir pjax, FSR wont guarantee isolation from pedal forces and maximum pedal effiency because SPECZ said that FSR is FULLY ACTIVE, FULLY INDEPENDENT,FULLY PROVEN how right you are and how wrong the advertisements are!
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JAM
XC Rider
Patience is a Virtue
Posts: 118
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Post by JAM on Jan 22, 2008 18:18:44 GMT 8
Given your knowledge and expertise on this subject, just cant help but ask for your opinion regarding a different suspension system that is out in the world market (although I havent seen anyone using it locally yet) that claims to be both bob free and bump compliant without any dependence on a shock with SPV features. This is Felt Bicycle's patented Equilink system in their Virtue 1-4 line of XC/trailbike models. i've seen that video before. it got me real curious i think it can still bob and other what not, IF they get it wrong here goes he said that "everytime you peda the bicycle, you basically try and pull the rear wheel towards the bottom bracket", which activates the lower link which activates the "equilink" what pulls the rear wheel towards the bottom bracket? chain forces i think the best way to asses their claims is to try out the bike, turn off the platform option, hop on the bike AND MASH HARD. this is my mistake when i got my stumpjumper. MASH HARD and see if it bobs. try all drivetrain configurations. it's a simple test you can do before you buy the bike in all aspects, the bike COULD do what it claims, if the chain torque does equal the squat. i'll be looking forward to test your Felt if you would allow me ;D Sir Pjax, sorry fot he very delayed response but I finally got the Felt Virtue 4 frame only just last Saturday after a shipment time of 60 days. I had to cancel the order from the Singapore distributor since it was taking them so long to get a unit. The one available as frame only was a Virtue4 and the only difference is the rearshock used which is a Manitou Radium R instead of the RP23. As soon as this project of my is finished and ready to run, I will inform you so you can test ride for yourself and see if Felt's claim is indeed true.
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Post by mtbrider06 on Jan 22, 2008 19:45:07 GMT 8
Any one who has direct experience with the stumpjumper with the Brain? Kindly share your personal experience and account on the performance. Curious on the Brain claimed control on the bumps/ruts.
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Post by BrusKO on Jan 22, 2008 20:50:19 GMT 8
PJax... Can I lend you my rig and see if the Meastro can do didly shite?
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Post by mountguitars on Jan 24, 2008 2:37:43 GMT 8
hmmm.........i think a URT is what we need. isnt haro a URT?
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Post by anthrax76 on Jan 24, 2008 10:32:58 GMT 8
i though Haro is doing single pivot. URT's are available only in Mall bikes nowadays.
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Post by BrusKO on Jan 24, 2008 14:09:41 GMT 8
Both Jon and Allan may be correct. "...Equipment: Durable, but it may need to be The Haro has a selection of decent, durable kit. However, regular hub thumping moments from the basic Tora fork meant the Pivit centred front wheel was already rattling loose after the first ride. Summary It’s always good to see new designs, but Haro’s combination of virtual pivot and URT throws up some odd characteristics. It’s a smooth cruiser and easy wheel popper in the saddle, but put the power down or stand up and you’re losing a decade of suspension development....." www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/mountain/product/sonix-08-29113
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Post by meeeng on Feb 6, 2008 23:42:14 GMT 8
Any one who has direct experience with the stumpjumper with the Brain? Kindly share your personal experience and account on the performance. Curious on the Brain claimed control on the bumps/ruts. hi guys, i'm a Spez Sworks 06 user with a Fox Shox / Brain. the brain controls suspension like a fox fork blow off valve, it only activates the suspension during bumps. if you're on the road, it is stiff as hell. i think its confusing to imagine it, but in my experience, i can set how "sensitive" the brain will be on bumps, i can make it stiffer if i want a bumpier yet quick peddling bike on the road or trail or playful and plush on the downhill. i'm also wondering how the triad and septune shocks work. i don't know how much pedal induced bobbing is acceptable and too much. why don't you guys set an all fsr eb, we could test each other's bikes, baka naman iba iba lang tayo ng settings and preference and not exactly the bike that's the problem. more power to sir pjax and this thread.
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Post by pjax on Feb 16, 2008 14:13:49 GMT 8
hey sir BrusKo. i'd be more than willing to try out your rig. especially the maestros. actually, i've never really thoroughly tested any other bike besides my own. thoroughly testing a rig means i have to try out the bike for a day, and try it out on its natural element - take it out on technical hill climbs and downhill runs. i can't just take it around the parking lot. and the suspension needs to be setup for me, too. Sir meeeng, i've "parking lot tested" the brain and i can say that it really works. the brain system has been working ever since really. it's just that feeling that specialized isn't confident with FSR that's bothering me... and the fact that my stumpjumper doesn't have brain why not try a suspension EB. let's get the lot... single pivots (sta cruz), faux bars (kona etc), four bars (FSR), four bar ICT (ellsworth), vpp (sta cruz, intense), dw-links (IH, ibis, pivot) and those proprietary ones (marin quad link, felt equilink, haro sonix virtual link, rocky mountain etsx and many other "x's", foes 2:1, GT i-drive, cannondale scalpel (wow no pivot))
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Post by Onie on Feb 16, 2008 19:01:43 GMT 8
Not everyday you find something cool. This one... Uh, well! Neat idea!
Line up and demo those bikes! ;D
Do we hear, Amen?
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Post by pjax on Feb 16, 2008 22:43:28 GMT 8
i'll organize na. let's make it so that the EB won't push through unless we have at least one bike representing most of those bike suspension designs.
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